PITU GOTRA part 12 KR IRS 11524 12524
lineage/gotra/kula of divorced hindu women
scriptures say- family/lineage where women are victimized and harassed gets
destroyed then which family/lineage to be considered doomed
logic given- husband and wife become one soul after marriage after
performing 7th promise of saptapadi.no doubt husband and wife become one
soul as per saptapadi vows Hindu marriage is divided into 8 categories- 4
righteous and 4 non righteous. as per texts the righteous marriage is
connected to lineages and non-righteous are basically connected with carnal
/material desires.
but can we consider a woman or man :
a forced to marry joining soul with husband /wife?
B becoming soul mate of husband/wife when she/he marries
For money?
C becoming soul mate when she/he deceives someone into marriage?
The concept of becoming one soul belongs to the righteous class of Hindu
marriages. and cannot belong to rakshasa vyavahāra Vivaha and paishacha
Vivaha.
A woman logically inherits the lineage of husband when by heart and soul
she accepts joining him i.e in case of righteous marriages and even in case
of gandharva Vivaha which though is not taken as a good marriage but has a
content of surrender to partner and desire for union.
If the wife/ husband has been forced into marriage
or the motive is money at the time of marriage
or a deceptive marriage – joining of soul is difficult.
And whereas wife loses her Gotra in divorce why husband alone is allowed to
retain the patriarchy gotra?
wife though staying with husband has not joined his lineage because the
motive is other than the motive of continuance of lineage. Hence in case of
divorce the gotra of such woman should be that of her father. also kindly
refer to an excellent Ph.d thesis which throws light on this matter
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THE POSITION OF WOMEN IN THE VEDIC RITUAL
Just as the wife is enjoined to please the husband, the husband is
also enjoined to please the wife. Where the wife and the husband are
whole-heartedly pleased with each other, they acquire the three objects of
life (Tri-varga). They must remain satisfied with mutual partnership in all
matters; they must not even think of others; for the violation of these
rules, they incur the same sin and undergo the same punishment without any
distinction whatsoever. For grave offences they separate from each other
or they may marry again. She may remarry, it her first husband is impotent,
outcaste or dead or for reasons. {other (similarly grave) 179 Alanu, III,
60-61. 180 Parasara, 4, 12-13; similarly, Devala, Brhaspati, etc. 181 For
those of the wife ij Yajnavalkya, 3, 72-73}
She or he is to remarry, however, on the fullest knowledge chat
her or his marriage for the second time cannot be considered as a sacred
ceremony (sarnskara). Even though she or he remarries another unmarried man
or woman, is still the marriage cannot be accredited as a samskara as each
sarnskara is to be observed only once in life and her or his marriage
ceremony has been completed for ever in the first marriage. From time
immemorial' the wife has doubly blest her husband, by procreation as well
as by participation in sacrifices. In this connection her epithets “Jaya”
and “^Patni” are, no doubt to some extent, significant. But this “Jayatva”
and “Patnitva” are by no means separable in a clear-cut way as her Jayatva
serves really for her Patnitva. She performs a religious duty by means of
procreation. She as well as her husband have been born as owing debts to
the gods, to the Rsis, to the fathers and to man.“
(In 182 Vas. DhS., XVII, 20; Alarm IX, 175-176; Yajn., i, 67; cf. also
Kama-sutra, p. 248 (Nir. Ed,), Sutra 31 (with Yasodhara’s Commentary);
Baudh, DhS., IV, 1. 16; II, 2, 3, 27 ; Visntt XV, 7 • Narada XII, 45ff- 183
For the Indo-Iraniaii period: W. Geiger, Ostiraniseke JCultHr Jm Altertum,
p. 244- 184 Panini, IV, i, 33; cf. Sat. BrS., i, 9, 2, 14. But Patanjali
docs not observe this distinction. 185 Sa^. Bra., i, 7, 2, i ; also IX, 4,
i, 5; Tail..Bra., VI, 3, 5; 10; III. 7, 9, 8; AV., VI. 117, 3; Tait. Aran.,
VII, ix, 5; Tait^ 1 34) order to liberate themselves from the debt to
fathers, they are to marry and have children : the fathers in the other
world depend for their continuance on the offerings of their children. The
ardent desire for having children for religious purposes has given women an
extremely high position.' So it is only natural that she almost always
prays to gods for children. Owing to the urgent necessity of having
children, productive unions are always to be effected in rituals so much so
that even the vessels, spoons or other sacrificial implements are often
imagined as males and females. Progeny is one of the primary objects of.
sacrifices. The wife as the bearer of this highest" It will be seen in this
connection that in the water-libations and Sraddas, water and cake are
offered to the parents of the mother as well as the father blessing on
earth deserves respect from the husband as welli as from the society. The
husband is bound to respect her as in her, the Jaya, he is born again, and
as she, offered as great Brilliance to him by the gods and the seers, is
his mother again” Greek women are excluded from the cult of Theos Megus,
Zeus and Tachnepsis, but there is not a single Vedic ritual from which they
are excluded. In the Pravargya sacrifice the wife wraps up her head. This
does not mean exclusion at all; on the other hand, it is a part of her
ritualistic observances in the sacrifice, as, after this observance, she
joins in other rites in the sacrifice. According to a few authorities^” the
wife should be debarred from the Sapuidana if she has neither husband nor
sons. Markandeya thinks even though her husband may be living, unless she
has any issue she is not entitled to have the Samithadana, the mention of
the son is significant of the husband and so there is no contradiction' in
statements of these authorities. It the same circumstances the Sapindana
for the wife, too, may be performed by the sons of her co-wives, otherwise
the omission is as inevitable as in the case of the husband. Moreover, the
object of the Sapin¬ dana IS to relieve the mane from the state of a mane;
such a state of the wife m the above circumstances will cease because of
the performance of other Sraddhas. The woman is always pure. Soma gives
them Purity, Gandharvas sweet voice. Whatever be the sin of a wife in the
meantime, it is sure to be drained out of her body and she becomes
absolutely pure Her temporary Impurity is the cause of All Purity The
Brahmana is pure only in the feet, but the woman is pure in all her limbs
Her mouth is never impure/ The stress laid by the authorities on the
ritualistic impurity of women during their monthly course, pregnancy and
childbirth is due to their physical incapacity or some other unavoidable
cause or causes. The injunctions are all very reasonable pieces of advice
and cannot at all hint at their inferiority in position. During her period
she is not in her normal state of ill-health authorities, therefore, make
compulsory rules These are allowed, simply because they would otherwise
cause some hindrance, necessitate some atonement owing to the lapse of the
proper time.
Thus 1 we say that after divorce she gets father gotra
2 But sastra says that samskara Vivaha is only once for both man and
woman. And second and further marriages are not samskaras. Hence she
retains only the Gotra of the first husband, which according to me is cruel.
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What is a gotra, and how does it work?
The term gotra in Hindu culture is often used to refer to a clan. It
refers to those who descend from an unbroken male line of a common male
ancestral or patrilineal. The Gotra is generally considered an exogamous
unit. Marriage within the same Gotra is prohibited by custom and considered
incest. According to the Brahadaranyaka Upanishad, there were seven sages -
Gautam Bharadvaja, Visvamitra, Jamadagni, Vasishta, Kashyapa, Shandilya,
and Visvamitra. They were also known as saptarshis, and their progeny are
considered gotras. Panini knew about this enumeration of seven primary
gotras. He used the term gotra to denote grammatical purposes in his
literary works. He calls it papatyam putraprabhrti gotram. This means that
the person who says he is from 'Kashyapa' Gotra means that he descends from
Kashyapa through unbroken male descent. We will be explaining what Gotra is
and the importance of Gotra in this article!
Gotra and marriages in Hinduism
The rule of exogamy in traditional matrimonial systems prohibits marriages
within the Gotra. In preparation for Hindu marriage, it is common to ask
about the groom and bride's kula–Gotra (clan-lineage) before agreeing to
the wedding. People belonging to the same Gotra are considered siblings,
and a marriage to one of these people can increase the chances that the
child will get genetically transmitted diseases. Marriage within the same
Gotra is forbidden in almost all Hindu families. This is because they are
thought to have come from the same family. Marriages between gotras are
encouraged. However, unions within the jaati began to occur later.
Hindus pass the Gotra from their fathers to their children. It is, however,
passed from mother to child among the Tulu population. It is then in the
children's hands to carry forward the importance of Gotra for the upcoming
generation.
The tatsama words sahodara' (brother ) and sahodari (sister) are derived
from the Sanskrit term 'saha Udara' (same womb/blood), which means
co-uterine, or born of the same womb. Marriages between a woman's maternal
uncle and herself were permitted in gotra communities. However, such
marriages were prohibited in matrilineal communities like Tuluva, where
gotra membership was handed down from the mother.
One of the most common features of South Indian Hindu society is the
permission to marry cross-cousins (children from different gotras). A man
can marry his paternal uncle's or maternal aunt's child, but not his
paternal uncle. She would be considered a cousin of the same Gotra and be
treated as a sister.
North Indian Hindu society follows the rules of Gotra to marry and has many
other regulations that go beyond the basics of Gotra. It also has a wider
definition of incest. North Indian communities may not allow marriage to
other clans if they believe that they are the same patrilineal descendants.
Marriage within the gotras of the father and mother, as well as with other
clans, is forbidden in some communities.
One possible solution to sagotra weddings is to adopt the bride from a
different family. Usually, dathu is given to the bride's maternal uncle to
a different gotra. Then let them perform the Kanyadanam ('Kanya (girl) +'
danam' (to give). These work arounds may not be accepted in all cases.
Vedic Hinduism recognizes eight types of marriages. It therefore primarily
follows the Manu Smriti principles, which refers to eight types of
marriages and their roles and responsibilities. Eight types of marriages
for the importance of Gotra are as follows -
(1) Brahma Vivaha
(2) Arsa Vivaha
(3) Daiva Vivaha
(4) Prajapatya Vivaha
(5) Gandharva Vivaha
(6) Asura Vivaha
(7) Rakshasa Vivaha
(8) Paishacha Vivaha
As per Manu Smriti, the third and fourth types of marriages are forbidden.
The second and third are also condemned. Gandharva marriage is similar to
modern-day love unions, in which the individual can choose their
partner. Gandharva
marriage was once a prominent part of our Shastras. {Living together?]
However, Vedic Hinduism gave way to classical Hinduism, and arranged
marriage emerged. This is still the most common ritual for a marriage
between two people.
Sagotram marriage is permissible even if they are not related to six
generations of either the paternal or maternal side. This is stated in
chapter 5, Manu Smriti, mantra 60. It states that spinnddtaa tu pulusse
sptme vinette / smaanodkbhaavstu jnmnaamnorvedne.
Now we will answer some most common questions asked on the importance of
Gotra!
Is it possible for the Brahmin sub-castes to be grouped under different
gotras that are patrilineal?
Yes. There are many Brahmin sub-castes and major Brahmin castes that exist
in India. In the 1860s, Rev MA Sherring had compiled approximately 2,000 in
his second volume of Hindu Tribes and Castes. The list was considered
incomplete by Sherring. The Brahmin sub-castes can be grouped under
different gotras, patrilineal groups. Some Shastras and common beliefs, as
discussed in "Hindu Castes & Sects" by Gajendranath Bhattacharya, indicate
that the Indian continent's Brahmins are divided into two main groups: Pancha
Gaur or Pancha Dravida.
What is pancha gaur?
Pancha Gaur is the classification of five Northern India groups, including
Saraswata Kanyakubja Gaudra Utkala and Utkala. The five Southern India
classes that are included under Panch Dravida include Andhra and Dravida
(Tamil, Kerala, Karnataka, Maharashtra, and Gujarat).
The Brahmin sub castes can be broadly divided into two major geographical
divisions, the north, and the south. The Narmada River is the dividing
line. According to Sherring, the gaur (white subcastes) live in the Narmada
region, while the Dravida subcastes are located south.
Is it possible to identify gotras based on Vedas?
Yes. Sherring stated that they could be identified based on the Vedas they
follow.
1 The Rig is followed by the Bhargaus and Sankritas, Gargs/Chandras,
Bhrigus, Bhrigus, Saunaks, Bhargaus, Gargs (Chandras), Bhrigus, Bhrigus,
and Bhargus.
2 The Sama is followed by the Kasyaps and Kaasyaps as well as Vatsas,
Sandilas, Dhananjays, Sandilas, Sandilas, and Vatsas.
3 The Bharadwajs of Bhaaradwajs are Angirahs and Gautams. Upamanyus,
Bhaaradwajs and Gautams observe the Yajur.
4 Kaushikas and Gritakaushikas adhere to the Atharva. Galawas,
Vashishts, Galawas, and Mudhgalas follow the Atharva.
5 All other people follow the Yajur.
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In the Mahabharata, Vichitravirya died without having any children.
In order that the Kuru race does not come to an end, his two wives Ambika
and Ambalika gave birth a son each, Dhritarashtra and Pandu, on their union
with the Sage Vyasa. This was as per the practice of "Niyoga" type of
marriage which was prevalent at that time. However, the two sons still were
treated as from the same gotra as Vichitravirya (s.o Sathanu) ,and not of
the gotram of Vyasa rishi (s/o Parasara) .
If this is taken as a precedent, then all children born to a woman,
whomsoever the father may be, should be considered to belong to the gotram
of her first husband. ( KR This conclusion is debatable because, Vyasa was
uninterested in who is who; but every seed giver , may own rightfully only
the gotram of self, even if mother were different; because a woman in
modern days acts as surrogate the gotra cannot be claimed by the lady)
The gotra of the baby follows the gotra of the husband of woman (even
though he is not the biological father)
So we can treat Sage Vyasa's Niyoga as a donor sperm.
This is not the same as in divorce and remarriage because the old marriage
is no longer valid legally.
The kids born through the new marriage should follow gotra of new hubby and
I personally feel since the DNA of a girl can’t change so let her remain in
the same gotra she was born in. At the end of the day when our body is
merely a garment that will be shed from life to life does Gotra really make
a difference?
She Changes Her Name, Her House And Her ‘Gotra’ After Marriage. But
What After Divorce?
The question was, “Ma’am my husband recently divorced me. I have been
battling severe depression since then. He left me for another woman because
I didn’t even want the divorce.
Recently I visited a temple with my family and relatives. While offering
the puja, the temple priest asked everyone their names and gotra (family
lineage).
So, I gave my husband’s, kids and my own name with the gotra. The puja
started. But suddenly one of my relatives shouted and asked the priest to
stop the puja. When we asked her why, she said some details were incorrect.
She meant that my gotra was no longer the same as my husband’s given that
we are divorced.
At the same time, my children have the same gotra as my husband. So I asked
her what my gotra would be. To which the priest says that it goes back to
the same as my father’s gotra. Now, if I get married to someone else, the
gotra changes again- to that of my new husband.
A woman’s identity crisis
And it changes again when she remarries. The bottom line is that, in order
to live in this society, a woman needs her father or husband’s lineage. She
needs a man’s lineage just to offer prayers in the temple. And nothing is
standardised. It will all change according to the situation.
Now, this can again be a topic of debate. The debate could be how many
times will a woman get married, and the number of divorces there are.
Divorces continue to be riddled with social stigma and the stereotypical
beliefs.
A woman’s identity has grown beyond these capitalistic and feudal contexts.
Needless to say, the 21st-century woman does not believe that ‘marriage is
the destination of her life story.’ The modern woman is confident and
powerful. She is mentally strong and capable of moving on in her life
without the borrowed identity of a man.
Indeed ‘life after divorce‘ is a double-edged sword that a woman stands on.
A woman who is going through or has recently gone through a divorce is in a
traumatic phase.
So, what is the solution?
She is a divorcee. Does that mean she has to wait to get married to an
older man or a widower or someone with kids?
Why should a social stigma compel her to depend on a man’s identity always?
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As far as जाताशौचम् , मृताशौचम् etc . are concerned there will be
some norms following धर्मशास्त्रम् , which are due to blood relation .
So , in all कर्मs - सङ्कल्प - it may be one that is performed along with
husband (सत्यनारायणव्रतम्) or individual (नित्यपूजा) - she would pronounce
her husband's gotram -- because
आपस्तंबधर्मसूत्रम् (apastamba dharma sutram) (2-6-13-16,17) says -- जायापत्योः
न विभागो’स्ति । पाणिग्रहणाद्धि सहत्वं कर्मसु ... .(Jayapatyo: Na
vibhaagosthi /panigrahanaadathi sahatvam karmasu
and दंपत्योः सहाधिकार (dambatyo sahaadikara) is established in sixth अध्याय
(6th chap) of पूर्वमीमांसा (Purva meemamsa) (स्ववतोस्तु ...) । पत्नी is
called अर्धाङ्गी (half of the body of husband) –patni is ardhaangi
अर्धो वा एष आत्मनो यत्पत्नी -- 6-1-8-5 तैत्तिरीयसंहिता (कृष्णयजुर्वेदः) ।
Ardho va esha: atmana yat patni 6185 taitriya samhita krishna Yajurvedam
अर्धो वा एष आत्मनो यज्जाया -- 5-2-1-10 , 8-7-2-3 ardha va esha atmano
yajnaya शतपथब्राह्मणम् (शुक्लयजुर्वेदः)(shatapaatha brahamaanam) (Shukla
YV) ।पत्युर्नो यज्ञसंयोगे पा सू 4-1-33 (pithyurnyo yajasamyoge Pa.Su 4 1
33 If पति and पत्नी have different gotras the above injunctions would be
rendered null and void .If a lady goes for a second marriage , due to
divorce or नष्टे मृते प्रव्रजिते क्लीबे पतिते she would get the gotra of
the second husband -- a third marriage would entail the third husband's
gotram . In the event of death of her husband, if she wishes to remain as a
widow, she would continue to carry her husband's
gotram.
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In पाणिनीयम् (Paanineeyam) two kinds of गोत्रs are followed - Patanjali
clarifies -- अपत्याधिकारादन्यत्र लौकिकं गोत्रम् (apatyadikaaradanyatra
loukikam) Otherwise one should go for पारिभाषिकं गोत्रम्
।(Paripashikam) अपत्यं
पौत्रप्रभृति गोत्रम् -- जीवति तु वंश्ये युवा -- भ्रातरि च ज्यायसि --
वान्यस्मिन् सपिण्डे स्थविरतरे जीवति पा सू 4-1-162-165
---------------------------------------------
The terms which Arjuna uses are: kula-kshayakrutam dosham, paataka,
paapam, sanatana-kula-dharma-pranaasha, adharma, - kula-striyah-
pranashyanti / streeshu dushtaasu varna-sankarah jaayate, Sankarah
narakaaya, pitarah patanti lupta-pind udaka-kriyah, kulaghna,
(shaashvata)-jaati-kula-dharma-utsaadana .{B G} Arjuna argues: ‘We are
taught like this /told like this /groomed like this to follow binding
norms / We understand elders teaching like this’ to decide ‘DHARMA’-
ityanu-shushruma (1-44) 1. On< If पति and पत्नी have different gotras the
above injunctions would be rendered null and void>
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1.Request help to understand the implication of < above injunctions would
be rendered null and void>.
’धर्मे चार्थे च कामे च नातिचरितव्या’ - is the pledge and 'अग्नीषोमौ देवता
’ (अग्नि and सोम are a single देवता) - is taken up to explain the concept
of
दांपत्यम् - which means - except for the physical separation , there are no
two persons after marriage . It means the गोत्रम् is also should be one.
(2) : *2.a*. Does this imply -‘First Marriage’ permanently takes away the
‘Birth Gotra- Identity’ for
the Female ?
Yes certainly .
*2.b.* Does it, by extension, imply, the ‘female not willing to marry/
remain a spinster for life’
Would have here ‘Birth Gotra’ for her life?
Even if ‘Parent have fallen out of ‘Gotra- status’?
Yes .
*2.c**. When Panini provides ‘ Gotra’ to spread across ‘ Three Generations
( Vruddha –*
* reference) and beyond, How would several
present ‘ Gotra *
Panini's गोत्रम् (अपत्यं पौत्रप्रभृति गोत्रम्) is technical , exclusively
useful in अपत्याधिकारप्रकरणम् - it is not लौकिकगोत्रम् । Even the
वृद्धसंज्ञा
(वृद्धस्य च पूजायाम् - वार्तिकम्) was being used by pre-Paninian
grammarians for गोत्रम् (of Panini) .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*So, What is Indian Constitution stand on ‘GOTRA: Dynamic Identity - in
Hindu Marriage solemnization’?*
*Where would one connect DHARMA-SHAASTRA/ Gotra pre- conditioned Marriage
in current period Samskar- paddhati? *
Text: Hindu Marriage Invalid Without Requisite Ceremonies, Registration
Won't Make It Legitimate: SC
New Delhi: The Supreme Court (SC) in a judgement clarified the legal
requirements and sanctity of Hindu marriages under the Hindu Marriage Act
1955. The Court emphasised that for a Hindu marriage to be valid, it must
be performed with the appropriate rites and ceremonies, such as saptapadi
(seven steps around the sacred fire) if included, and proof of these
ceremonies is essential in case of disputes.
Justice B V Nagaratna led bench said that a Hindu Marriage is sacrament,
not an event for "song-dance", "wining-dining".
"A Hindu marriage is a samskara and a sacrament which has to be accorded
its status as an institution of great value in Indian society. Therefore,
we urge young men and women to think deeply about the institution of
marriage even before they enter upon it and as to how sacred the said
institution is, in Indian society. Marriage is not an event for 'song and
dance' and 'wining and dining' or an occasion to demand and exchange dowry
and gifts by undue pressure leading to possible initiation of criminal
proceedings thereafter," the court .
It added, "A marriage is not a commercial transaction. It is a solemn
foundational event celebrated so as to establish a relationship between a
man and a woman who acquire the status of a husband and wife for an
evolving family in future which is a basic unit of Indian society.
A bench comprising Justices BV Nagarathna and Augustine George Masih
observed that while registration of a Hindu marriage under Section 8 of the
Hindu Marriage Act facilitates proof of the marriage, it does not confer
legitimacy if the marriage was not solemnised according to Section 7 of the
Act, which specifies the requirements for a valid Hindu marriage ceremony.
"If there has been no marriage in accordance with Section 7, the
registration would not confer legitimacy to the marriage. We find that the
registration of Hindu marriages under the said provision is only to
facilitate the proof of a Hindu marriage but for that, there has to be a
Hindu marriage in accordance with Section 7 of the Act inasmuch as there
must be a marriage ceremony which has taken place between the parties in
accordance with the said provision. Although the parties may have complied
with the requisite conditions for a valid Hindu marriage as per Section 5
of the Act in the absence of there being a “Hindu marriage” in accordance
with Section 7 of the Act, i.e., solemnization of such a marriage, there
would be no Hindu marriage in the eye of law."
The Court also underscored the sacred character of Hindu marriage, calling
it a sacrament and the foundation of a new family, based on mutual respect
and partnership between spouses.
KR: From the above constitutional propriety, the argument of Hindu
marriage validity as declared, if performed for each marriage, THEN I her
an argument that except the first, all other marriages of women, are
invalid as samskara? NO. Because all marriages were performed by Hindu
Marriage act only. Hence, Gotra of women keep on changing? Or by those
interpretations of SAMSKARA as only once, she cannot get back father gotra
and cannot drop, divorced husband Gotra?
K Rajaram IRS 11524//12524
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