AVIVEKIS LIKE GOPALAKRISHNAN, NARAYANASAMY ET ALL, WHO FEELS BEWILDERED, WITHOUT KNOWING ANY GREEK AND LATIN OF INDIA, AND WHO ALWAYS WRITE THEIR mannar & co OF "LATIN PHRASES AND SANDYA VANDHAM, SRADHAM, AND QUORA" , WHO NEVER READ IN THE PAST NOR IN THE PRESENCE ,WHO CANNOT BRING IN ANYTHING AS A CONTENT WITH EVIDENCES, -CAN ONLY WRITE WITH FRUSTRATIONS. FOR A VILLAGER EVEN ELEPHANTS IN A COSMOPOLITAN CITY IS AWESOME. ONE WHO DOES NOT KNOW THAT HE DOES NOT, IS A FOOL SHUN HIM OR THEM. MANU SMRITHI AND VEDA QUOTES ARE REFERABLE IN THE SCRIPTURES; AND ONLY THESE 2 ARE THINKING IT AS SOMETHING STRANGE; STRANGERS WHO FEIGNED SO FAR AS LIVE WIRE BRAHMINS GETS PUNCHED. OK FOXES JUMP KR IRS 17724 18724
On Wed, 17 Jul 2024 at 02:11, 'gopala krishnan' via KeralaIyers < keralaiy...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Respected sir, > > Why we beat the * bull* again and again? Without understanding he will be > charging,charging, charging....It is better to leave the stick after 2-3 > beatings. > Gopalakrishnan > > On Wednesday, 17 July, 2024 at 10:49:17 am IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer < > iyern...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Dear folks > > The craven coward and crazy weirdo again runs and hides when caught > flagrante delicto. Even if he tries to sit on the fence, he needs beware > that the sharp fence will pierce through his aged useless genitals and make > him bleed at his secret spots. > > S Narayanaswamy Iyer > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 9:41 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > You senile idiot Even if you jump like a fox that is the truth which I had > proved already. But your assertions and claims you are yet to prove. No > point in your personal versions. No one will print it and sell. Thank you > da oldman KR > > On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 at 20:14, Narayanaswamy Iyer <iyern...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Dear folks > > Ever delirious and mentally incompetent, sleep-deprived KR ex-IRS 16724 > babbles his usual incurable nonsense. For example:- > > "*The only one Veda that is Rig became SAMA with 90% of the Rigs, and > then KYV with 60% of the Rig."* > > My comments:- > > He desperately tries to hide the truth that the r'g, saama, and Yajur > emerged at one and the same time, and that he himself has admitted in > these columns that 900 and more verses in r'g were wholesale copies > from yajur-vedam. > > His persistence in his monumental but transparent bluffs only confirm his > advanced insanity and his utter stupidity in trying to suppress the truth. > > He has retracted his earlier assertion without proof that "this (the > atharva vedam) also is not the work of a human author", and confessed that > it was composed by a human:- > > "*Later The Rishi Atharvan classified the mind concerned differently to > the matter in consonance to lead the body life. Thus the Atarva did not > make any fresh*." > > Once a crazy weirdo, always a crazy weirdo. > > S Narayanaswamy Iyer > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 9:45 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Mr Narayanasamy, your unauthentic assertions are your rights to write but > in vain as your stuff is in the open forum stark naked. The very nature of > your classification of the Atharva vedam as MYSTIC shows how unwise you > are. Of Course the verses of original ,might have been later mixed up by > the no-knowledge printers when sruthi became smrithi. But The only one Veda > that is Rig became SAMA with 90% of the Rigs, and then KYV with 60% of the > Rig . Later The Rishi Atharvan classified the mind concerned differently to > the matter in consonance to lead the body life. Thus the Atarva did not > make any fresh but extracted such verses from the Rig and called it by his > name. And all the verses of the Rig vedam were useful for the day to day > life. The opening verses of the Atharva veda speaks about i all. Your > haughtiness will make you less than a worm creature. Have a nice sleep KR > IRS 16724 > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2024 at 21:18, Narayanaswamy Iyer <iyern...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Dear folks > > Erroneous assumptions, even if repeated a thousand times, cannot be > transformed into truth any more than lead can be turned into gold. > > Totally uneducated super bluffologist K RAJARAM ex-IRS 15724 16724 > trumpets atop the chicken-coop roof:- > > "*The Vedic character of the Atharva cannot be denied, because, like the > other Vedas, this also is not the work of a human author, it helps to make > known man’s duties, it is free from mistakes, it prescribes the Jyotiṣṭoma > and such other rites exactly in the same manner as the other Vedas do.*" > > My comments:- > > Utterly untrue. > > The atharva vedam was composed by fallible humans -- rishi atharvana and > rishi aangirasa and their group. > > It cannot ever be compared with r'g, yajur, and saamam, all of which were > partitioned from the primordial mass of Vedic verses originating from > Brahma and transmitted to Brahma's mind-born sons Sanaka, Sanandana, > Sanaatana and Sanat Kumaara. > > The atharva vedam, because of its mystic content, requires a different > upanayanam from the upanayanam for the other three vedams. > > S Narayanaswamy Iyer > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 9:32 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > PART 8 KR IRS 15724 16724 > > We shall see now what these terms mean according to the Commentators and the > more important Digest-writers. > > (A) Śruti > > Medhātithi on Manu, 2.6.—The word ‘Veda’ stands for the Ṛgveda, Yajurveda, > and Sāmaveda (also Atharva Veda), along with their respective Brāhmaṇas, > There are 21 Recensions of the Ṛgveda, 100 of the Yajurveda, 1,000 of the > Sāmaveda and 9 of the Atharvaveda. The Vedic character of the Atharva > cannot be denied, because, like the other Vedas, this also is not the work > of a human author, it helps to make known man’s duties, it is free from > mistakes, it prescribes the Jyotiṣṭoma and such other rites exactly in the > same manner as the other Vedas do. [This is denied by Vīramitrodaya on > Yājñavalkya; see below.] Though there are certain texts that forbid the > study of the Atharva Veda, yet all that this means is that one should not > confuse the teachings of the other Vedas with those of the Atharva; for > instance, at the performance of rites in accordance with the three other > Vedas, one should not use Mantras of the Atharva Veda. > > This ‘Veda’ is the ‘root,’ i.e., source, cause, of dharma, in the sense > that it makes it known, and it does this by means chiefly of such passages > in the Brāhmaṇas as contain injunctive expressions; sometimes also by means > of Manras. And the other parts of the Veda—the Arthavāda or Declamatory > Passages—have their use in eulogising what is enjoined by the corresponding > injunction; Mantras and names help in indicating the details of the acts > prescribed. > > Sarvajñanārāyaṇa on Manu, 26.—When Manu speaks of the ‘entire Veda,’ he > means to include the Arthavādas, commendatory and condemnatory > exaggerations, also. > > Kullūka on Manu, 26.—‘Veda’ stands for the Ṛk, Yajus, Sāman and Atharvan; > the whole of these, including the injunctions, Mantras and Arthavādas, the > last also serving the purpose of helping the injunction by persuasion. Both > Mantras and Arthavādas serve the useful purpose not only of persuasion, but > also of reminding the agent of the details of the action undertaken. The > authority of Śruti and the rest also rests upon.the fact of their having > their source in the Veda. > > Rāghavānanda on Manu, 2.6.—Ṛk, Yajus, Sāman and Atharvan are the > authority for Dharma. > > Viśvarūpa on Yājña, 1.3-7.—‘Śruti’ is to be taken, not in the strictly > limited sense of the ‘Mantra and Brāhmaṇa texts,’ but for all the fourteen > ‘Sciences’—the Four Vedas, their six ‘subsidiaries’ or ‘limbs,’ Purāṇa, > Nyāya, Mīmānsā, and Dharmaśāstra. > > Mitākṣarā on Yājña, 1.7.—‘Śruti’ is Veda. > > (I) Aparārka on Yājña, 1.7.—‘Śruti’ is Veda—it is the only determining > factor in all matters relating to the Agnihotra and other rites. As Vyāsa > says, this is the only pure authority (i.e., entirely trustworthy), all the > rest being ‘adulterated,’ i.e., of doubtful authority; that law is the > highest which is learnt from the Veda, what is propounded in the Purāṇas > and other works being of a lower grade. > > Says Manu—‘The Veda embodies all knowledge’ (2.7). > > ‘The learned man should enter upon his own duties, resting upon the > authority of the Revealed Word’ (2.8). ‘The Veda should be known as the > Revealed Word, Śruti’ (2.10). > > Vīramitrodaya-Tīkā on Yājña, 1.7.—‘Śruti’ is Veda—as in Manu (2.10). It > is the sole authority in regard to Agnihotra and such rites. > > Vīramitrodaya-Paribhāṣā, pp. 8-25.—‘Śruti’ stands for ‘Veda,’ which, > according to Āpastamba’s definition, is the name given to the ‘collection > of Mantra and Brāhmaṇa texts’;—the ‘whole’ of this authoritative, i.e., the > direct, texts themselves, as also those that are deducible from the > implications of ‘Indication,’ ‘Syntactical Connection,’ ‘Context,’ > ‘Position’ and ‘Name,’ and also the transformations undergone by the > original texts under well-recognised principles. Another implication of the > epithet ‘entire’ is that the Atharva Veda also is to be accepted as > authoritative, and not only the ‘trinity of Vedas,’ as one might be led to > suppose from the words of Āpastamba, who says that ‘Dharma is to be > learnt from the three Vedas.’ It would be wrong to deny the authority of > the Atharva Veda, because, even though it has nothing to say regarding the > setting up of the Sacrificial Pires or the details of the Agnihotra and > other rites, yet on certain matters it is our only authority; such > propitiatory rites for instance as those relating to the *‘Tulāpuruṣa’ > and* the like, which affect all the castes. When we speak of these being > the ‘source of dharma,’ ‘means of knowing what Dharma, Right, is,’ it > follows that they are the means of knowing also what ‘Adharma’ ‘wrong’ is; > it is necessary to understand what is ‘wrong’ in order to discard it and > thereby prepare the mind for perceiving what is ‘right.’ > > This ‘Śruti’ operates in the following seven forms: > > (1) The Injunction or Mandatory text—e.g., ‘one shall sacrifice the goat > to Yāyu’—this is a trustworthy guide as to what one should do. > > (2) The Prohibitive Text—e.g., ‘one shall not eat the flesh of an animal > killed by the poisoned arrow this is a guide as to what one shall avoid. > > (3) The ‘Declamatory’ text of two kinds: the commendatory and the > condemnatory; the former serves the purpose of delineating the excellence > of the course of action enjoined by the Mandatory text; e.g., the text > ‘Vāyu is the eftest deity,’ serves to indicate the excellent properties of > the deity Vāyu to whom the offering of the goat has been enjoined; the > condemnatory text serves to deprecate the course of action prohibited; > e.g., the assertion that ‘the tears of weeping Rudra became silver’ is > meant to deprecate the giving of silver as the sacrificial fee, which has > been forbidden by a prohibitive text. Texts of this declamatory kind are of > use sometimes in settling a doubtful point: e.g., it having been enjoined > that one should place wet pebbles under the altar, and the injunction being > silent as to the substance with which the pebble is to be wetted, the doubt > on this point is settled by a subsequent ‘declamatory’ text, ‘clarified > butter is glory itself,’ which clearly indicates the clarified butter as > the substance with which the pebbles are to be wetted. > > (4) The Mantra text—e.g., ‘Devasya tvā savituḥ,’ etc., serves to remind > the performer of the details of the performance in the shape of the deity > and so forth. > > (5) The proper names of particular sacrifices help in the determining of > the exact action connoted by the common root ‘yaji,’ ‘to sacrifice’ > occurring in the injunctive text. > > (6) The meaningless syllables, stobhas, introduced in the Sāma-chant, > serve the purpose of marking time and cadence; > > And > > (7) the Upaniṣad text serves to promulgate that knowledge of Brahman > which desroys all evil. > > ----------------------- > > *Parāśara, 1-20—speaks* of the ‘propounders of Śruti’ appearing at the > beginning of each kalpa. From the words it would seem as if the three > gods—Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara were the said ‘propounders.’ But Mādhava > (p. 98) takes the ‘propounders of Śruti, Smṛti and Sadāchāra’ separately > from Brahmā, etc., and he supplies a peculiar account of the ‘propounders > of Śruti’—which extends the scope of the authority of this source of > knowledge. He says that by the ‘propounders of Śruti’ here are meant > > (1) Vyāsa, who divided the Vedic text into the several recensions; > > (2) the expounders of those Recensions—such as Kaṭha and Kuthuma; > > (3) the contents of Kalpasūtras, such as Baudhāyana, Āśvalāyana, aud > Āpastamba, and also the ‘authors’ of the Mīmāṃsāsūtras, Jaimini and the > rest. > > Nṛsiṃhaprasāda-Saṃskara-Sāra MSS.—The Veda is the main authority for > Dharma. Any inconsistencies that may be found in it can be easily explained > away. This authority belongs not only to the Injunctions, but also to > Mantras, names and declamatory passages. > > Smṛticandrikā, p. 3.—The Veda is authoritative as it is independent of > human authorshp. > > (B) Smṛti > > Medhātithi on Manu, 2.6.—‘Smṛti’ is Recollection and ‘Śīla’ denotes > freedom from love, hatred and such improper feelings; this latter, > according to one explanation, is a means of accomplishing Dharma, and not a > means of knowing it; and it has been separately mentioned in the present > connection only with a view to emphasise its importance. Not satisfied with > this, he has taken the two terras ‘Smṛti’ and ‘Śīla’ in the compound as > inter-related; and as together standing for a single means of knowing > Dharma, in the shape of ‘Recollection during that state of the mind when it > is calm, free from all disturbing influences of love, hatred and so > forth’,—i.e., ‘Conscientious Recollection.’ The authority of ‘Smṛti’ thus > becomes qualified. Even though a certain writer may be a Ṛṣi versed in > Veda, yet if his ‘recollection’ and its compilation come about at a time > when his mind was perturbed by discordant feelings, much trust cannot be > placed upon such ‘Recollection.’ > > This again has to be taken along with ‘Sādhūmām’; so that we have a > threefold condition for the trustworthiness of a writer of Smṛti:— > > he must be learned (‘tādvidām’), > > he must be ‘conscientious,’ ‘free from love and hatred’ (‘Śīla’), > > and he must be ‘righteous’ (‘Sādhūmām’), be habitually engaged in carrying > out the injunctions of the Veda. > > The upshot of the whole is that when a person is found to be recognised > and spoken of by all wise and learned persons as endowed with the said > three qualifications—and a certain compilation is also recognised as made > by that person,—the word of such a person as found in his recognised work, > should be recognised as an authoritative exponent of Dharma. Sc that even > at the present day if there were such a person and he were to compose a > work, then for all later generations that work would be regarded just as > highly as those of Manu and others. This is the reason why Medhātithi is > averse to the practice of enumerating the authoritative ‘Smṛtis.’ (Trans., > p. 204.) > > Sarvajñanārāyaṇa on Manu, 2.6.—In cases where no Vedic texts are > available, the law can be determined with the help of the Smṛti of persons > learned in the Veda—the term ‘Smṛti’ standing for the reflections over a > certain subject, as also the treatises embodying those reflections. > > Kullūka on Manu, 2.6.—The Smṛti of ‘persons learned in the Veda’ is > authoritative,—this last qualification being added for the purpose of > indicating that the authority of Smṛti is due to its having its source in > the Veda. > > Rāghavānanda on Manu, 2.6.—‘Smṛti’ stands for the work of Manu and > others. It stands here for only such Smṛti as is not incompatible with tho > Veda. All the rest are to be rejected whenever they are found to be > repugnant to any direct text of the Veda. But where there is no such > repugnance, we are justified in assuming that the Smṛti must be based upon > a Vedic text now lost to us; and it is on this assumption that its > trustworthiness rests. > > Nandana on Manu, 2.6.—The ‘Smṛti of men learned in the Veda.’ This stands > for Smṛtis, Purāṇas and Itihāsas. > > Viśvarūpa on Yājña, 1.7.—‘Smṛti’ and ‘Dharmaśāstra’ are synonymous terms. > “How do we know that the Smṛtis are all based upon the Veda, from which > they derive their authority? Certainly we do not find Vedic texts in > support of everything that is ordained in the Smṛtis. As for the Vedic > texts that are found to support some Smṛti assertions, such support is > found also in the case of the heterodox scriptures.”—The simple answer to > this question is that in the face of the direct assertion of Manu and other > Smṛti-writers that their work is ‘based on the Veda,’ we have no > justification for thinking otherwise. They being great Vedic scholars, > could not have lied on this point. As a matter of fact also we find that > every one of the injunctions contained in the Smṛtis has its source in the > Veda; in some cases the connection is direct, in others indirect; for > instance, we have the single Vedic injunction ‘one should study the Veda’; > now studying is not possible without teaching, hence the injunction of > teaching is implied by the former—the teaching cannot be done without some > one to teach; this implies the receiving and initiating of a pupil; this > implies the necessity of having children; this again that of marrying and > so on; most of the other injunctions may have their source traced in the > single Vedic text. > > (I) Aparārka on Yājña, 1.7.—‘Smṛti’ is that ordinance which, in matters > relating to Dharma, has its source in the Veda; its authority is > ‘adulterated,’ i.e., not so absolute as that of Śruti; it supplies us with > information regarding the duties of all castes and the four life-stages; > one should carefully do all that has been ordained, Smṛtam, by persons most > learned in the Veda and eschew what is forbidden by them. [This writer like > Kumārila makes a distinction between ‘Smṛti’ and ‘Purāṇa.’] There are > chances of our going astray in the matter of interpreting a Vedic text and > learning the law from it; but there is no fear of any such mistake being > committed by the Smṛti-writers who were thoroughly well-versed in the Vedic > lore. [From this it would seem that this writer flourished during the > transition period, when the centre of gravity was beginning to shift from > the Veda towards the Smṛti.] > > Mitākṣarā on Yājña, 1.7.—‘Smrti’ is Dharmaśāstra. > > Vīramitrodaya on Yājña, 1.7.—‘Smṛti’ is ‘Dharmaśāstra’—‘Legal Ordinances’ > (Manu 2-10); it is the sole authority regarding the Aṣṭakā and such rites. > > Vīramitrodaya-Paribhāṣā, pp. 8-25.—‘Of persons learned in the Veda’; this > has been added with a view to make clear that the authority of the Smṛtis > does not rest upon themselves: it is derived entirely from the fact of > their having their source in the Veda. The name ‘Smṛti’ stands for the > legal ordinances, ‘Dharmaśāstra,’ compiled by Yājñavalkya and others. > > Madanapārijāta, p. 11.—Manu is the most important of the expounders of > law. Among others, some are mentioned by Yājñavalkya (see above). But this > list is not exhaustive. Though all these ‘expounders’ do not always agree, > yet, on the main principles, they are all agreed; the differences, if any, > are confined to minor points; and these latter discrepancies can always he > explained. > > Nṛsiṃhaprasāda-Saṃskāra MSS.—“How can any authority attach to the Smṛtis > of Manu and others, which being of human origin are open to the suspicion > of the possibility of all those defects to which human writers are liable; > and for this reason these cannot be regarded as authoritative in the same > manner as the Vedas are, whose authority is above suspicion.”—The answer to > this is that inasmuch as these Smṛtis are found to be mere reproductions of > what is contained in the Veda, they must be regarded as duly authoritative. > The very name ‘Smṛti,’ ‘Recollection,’ implies that they only reproduce > what the authors have learnt elsewhere; and as Manu and others are known to > have been learned in the Veda it stands to reason that knowing as they did > that the Veda was the sole authority on Dharma, when they proceeded to note > down for the benefit of others what the laws were that regulated Dharma, > they could not but have drawn upon the Veda. It is true that they arc found > to contain many rules that we cannot trace to the Veda as known to us; but > if they were mere reproductions of whatever is found in the Veda, no one > would care for them. So we are led to the inference that as on most of the > points dealt with by them, their assertions are found to be based on Vedic > texts, the other points also must have had their source in the Veda; but in > those Vedic texts that have become lost to us. We have the Veda itself > testifying to the trustworthy character of at least one Smṛti-writer, > Manu—‘Whatever Manu has said is wholesome.’ > > Smrticandrikā, pp. 1 et scq.—The ordinances composed by Manu and other > writers, being based on the Veda, are our sole authority on Dharma. That > the Smṛtis have their source in the Veda is deduced from the fact that they > only expound what is contained in the Veda. Says Bhṛgu—‘Whatever Dharma has > been expounded by Manu has all been set forth in the Veda.’ Śaṅkara also > says that ‘the Smṛtis have their source in the Veda.’ But this refers to > only what the Smṛti says regarding spiritual matters, and not to what they > lay down regarding temporal matters; as is distinctly declared in the > Purāṇa—‘All these (smṛtis) have their source in the Veda—save those > portions that deal with visible (tempoal) matters.’ > ----------------End of part 8 --------------------------------K RAJARAM > IRS 15724 16724 > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > 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