Ah, well how about that! Thanks for sharing Nick, I didn't know that.

-- 
Pat

On 28/04/2010, at 8:51 PM, Nick Sellen wrote:

>> updates just take place in searchd's memory, does that mean if searchd 
>> restarts, the attributes will be stale until the next time the indexer is 
>> run?
> 
> thats true for MVA attributes but normal single value attributes will
> be persisted to disk on a clean shutdown of searchd:
> 
> "They are very fast because they're working fully in RAM, but they can
> also be made persistent: updates are saved on disk on clean searchd
> shutdown initiated by SIGTERM signal." (from
> http://www.sphinxsearch.com/docs/current.html#api-func-updateatttributes)
> 
> On Apr 28, 10:00 am, Pat Allan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 27/04/2010, at 2:58 AM, agibralter wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Pat, thank you for the response. I'll try to take a stab at a
>>> patch. Just to be clear, when you say updates just take place in
>>> searchd's memory, does that mean if searchd restarts, the attributes
>>> will be stale until the next time the indexer is run?
>> 
>> That's correct. It's not a perfect implementation...
>> 
>>> Also, on a separate note: do you have any thoughts on whether delayed-
>>> delta or datetime-delta would be more efficient in system that updates
>>> very often? I.e I'd like to have index updates reflected in a minute
>>> if possible. Are there any tradeoffs between
>> 
>>> "set_property :delta => true" with delayed-delta
>> 
>>> and
>> 
>>> "set_property :delta => :datetime, :threshold => 2.minutes" with
>>> datetime-delta?
>> 
>> Delayed Delta won't repeat a delta index job if there's already one there 
>> for that index, so it could be a bit more reliable for getting changes in 
>> there quickly without overloading the system. Also, maybe using 
>> Model.suspended_delta is worthwhile if you're doing bulk updates?
>> 
>> Beyond that, either should do the job, really.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> --
>> Pat
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Thanks again!
>> 
>>> -ajg-
>> 
>>> On Apr 22, 11:07 pm, Pat Allan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Hi guys
>> 
>>>> Seems there's a few topics being covered here, so it's taking a bit to 
>>>> grok it all, but with regards to MVA attribute updating: if it's something 
>>>> that Sphinx supports, then I'd like TS to support it natively as well. So 
>>>> Nick, if you want to wrap your changes into a patch with specs, that'd be 
>>>> fantastic.
>> 
>>>> Obviously, you'll want to check what version of Sphinx is being used, but 
>>>> that's do-able via configuration.version.
>> 
>>>> Aaron, what you're wanting to is a little bit more complex, but I like 
>>>> your approaches... maybe the more general hook is better, allowing for 
>>>> complex situations. A patch for that would be fantastic, too. You can 
>>>> invoke updates for Sphinx from any machine - all it actually does is 
>>>> update the attributes within searchd's memory, not the index files - and 
>>>> it's all over the socket anyway, so even if it did change the file, it can 
>>>> be remote.
>> 
>>>> Hope this helps clear a couple of things up - would love to see what you 
>>>> guys come up with. And if there's other questions I've not answered, let 
>>>> me know :)
>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Pat
>> 
>>>> On 23/04/2010, at 2:16 AM, agibralter wrote:
>> 
>>>>> Hmm I'm not sure I follow... As far as integration with the DSL I was
>>>>> thinking of something like:http://gist.github.com/375411
>> 
>>>>> But in general, delta indexes aside, if I wanted to do live updates on
>>>>> attributes I could create some ActiveRecord before_save callbacks that
>>>>> check for changed attributes and update the Sphinx indexes like so:
>>>>> http://gist.github.com/375427?
>> 
>>>>> Now, my question is, does ThinkingSphinx.update_index need to be
>>>>> called on a server running searchd? Or can it be called remotely? It
>>>>> seems like it just uses the Riddle client and can be called from
>>>>> anywhere... no need to have access to the actual index core files.
>> 
>>>>> Thanks again for the help!
>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Aaron
>> 
>>>>> On Apr 22, 6:10 am, Nick Sellen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> My extension is only a very small addition to reveal the attribute
>>>>>> update functionality. It would need quite a bit more work to
>>>>>> incorporate it into sphinx proper (someone was talking about doing it
>>>>>> somewhere I read).
>> 
>>>>>> It suits my needs well enough for now but it's a fairly manual process
>>>>>> to run it though. I added it to get around the process of doing
>>>>>> updates to a lot of records and avoiding this kind of process:
>>>>>> . add a delayed job for each record to remove the it from the main
>>>>>> index (well, set the "sphinx_deleted" attribute using client.update)
>>>>>> . sql to update each single record to delta = 1
>>>>>> . and then the job to run the delta index
>> 
>>>>>> I was using Model.suspended_delta { # do stuff with Model records }
>>>>>> but that doesn't set the "sphinx_deleted" attribute so there was
>>>>>> problems having duplicate entries in the main and delta indexes.
>> 
>>>>>> Currently I use Model.update_all calls (which doesn't instantiate the
>>>>>> model therefore no callbacks) and manually calculated
>>>>>> ThinkingSphinx.update_index calls. But it's not ideal still because I
>>>>>> still need to read quite a lot of individual rows from the db to
>>>>>> update the MVA attributes (as you can't make a call to add or remove a
>>>>>> value from the array you need to set the whole thing which requires
>>>>>> fetching it first).
>> 
>>>>>> So I think I'm going to go back to running the delta sql for mass
>>>>>> updates going forwards and using the attribute update methods for
>>>>>> smaller updates. e.g.:
>>>>>> Model.update_all("some things I want to update",update conditions)
>>>>>> Model.update_all('delta = 1',update conditions)
>>>>>> Model.update_delta_index_and_wait # another addition I've made to
>>>>>> perform the delta update synchonously
>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 21, 10:52 pm, agibralter <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Nick,
>> 
>>>>>>> This looks awesome! I'm using Sphinx 0.9.9 -- so how exactly would I
>>>>>>> use it? Set up a callback for my models that call the method in your
>>>>>>> pastie when their attributes of interest get updated? Or is there a
>>>>>>> way to hook into ThinkingSphinx's DSL for define_index such that `has
>>>>>>> attribute` could take an option like :update => true? Does anyone know
>>>>>>> how Pat feels about incorporating this into TS proper?
>> 
>>>>>>> Also, does that update have to happen on the app server with searchd
>>>>>>> running?
>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks a ton!
>> 
>>>>>>> -Aaron
>> 
>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 4:14 am, Nick Sellen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>> multiple app servers but only one Sphinx/searchd
>> 
>>>>>>>> the caveat is "it will only work for a single searchd instance" - so
>>>>>>>> you should be fine to use the delayed delta with multiple app servers
>>>>>>>> (but it looks like you're not using delayed job anyway).
>> 
>>>>>>>> I use sphinx in a simliar way to you and the most useful information
>>>>>>>> in my index are the attributes (not fields) and you can actually live
>>>>>>>> update the index for these. I've stopped doing delta updates where
>>>>>>>> possible to do the live update instead. I've added a small extension
>>>>>>>> to thinking sphinx which makes it easier 
>>>>>>>> runhttp://pastebin.com/KgwWREnj.
>> 
>>>>>>>> (You need sphinx 0.9.9 if you want to live update MVA attributes
>>>>>>>> though)
>> 
>>>>>>>> Hope this is helpful.
>> 
>>>>>>>> Nick
>> 
>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 5:12 pm, agibralter <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>> I use Sphinx for displaying filtered, sortable, and searchable lists
>>>>>>>>> of items in my web app. I use Sphinx even when there is no searching
>>>>>>>>> involved because ThinkingSphinx's sphinx_scopes make it very easy to
>>>>>>>>> chain attribute constraints together and because Sphinx is very fast.
>>>>>>>>> There is an obvious disadvantage though: lists are not displayed in
>>>>>>>>> realtime. This means I have to leverage delta indexing as much as
>>>>>>>>> possible...
>> 
>>>>>>>>> Because I have multiple app servers but only one Sphinx/searchd
>>>>>>>>> server, I cannot use the standard delta indexer. I have seen the
>>>>>>>>> caveat at the bottom 
>>>>>>>>> ofhttp://freelancing-god.github.com/ts/en/deltas.html
>>>>>>>>> but I can't figure out a good way to send asynchronous delta update
>>>>>>>>> jobs to my application server with searchd on it. Has anyone figured
>>>>>>>>> out a good way to do this? Also, I'm not using delayed_job in my
>>>>>>>>> app... I'm using Workling/Starling, but thinking of moving to
>>>>>>>>> Resque... has anyone seen a delayed delta that uses Resque? If so, is
>>>>>>>>> there a way to send the "async_update_deltas" jobs to my app server
>>>>>>>>> with searchd?
>> 
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, as an alternative, I've been using ts-datetime-delta to keep
>>>>>>>>> the lists as up-to-date as possible, running the rake ts:index:delta
>>>>>>>>> task every 2 minutes with cron on my server with searchd. I'm thinking
>>>>>>>>> of moving to 1 minute to be more realtime... This seems much more
>>>>>>>>> frequent than any examples of ts-datetime-delta I've seen... does this
>>>>>>>>> sound crazy? Should I try and figure out a way to use the delayed
>>>>>>>>> delta instead?
>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sorry for all the questions! I appreciate any advice!
>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Aaron
>> 
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