In fact the Thunderbird way works pretty well if the POP protocol is followed. It is the "bending of the rules" by the extension that introduces useful features but they come with associated issues.
Thunderbird 3 has no email database redesign. POP3 is not going to de redesigned - the main thrust will slowly be move towards IMAP. Though the email database may be redesigned (if Thunderbird continues to be developed) it is not as simple as "messages stored in the mail client". One can well say that you want to delete old messages from the mail client store but that you do not want them to be downloaded again from the server. You are quite right though that this is not really and issue for these add-ons so I agree we should leave it there. On Oct 18, 1:32 pm, KE4AVB <[email protected]> wrote: > Okay I get it, somewhat. Basically Thunderbird never actually looks at > what it has in it actual email files instead it has a separate file > for doing this. Sounds like that might need to changed in the future > as it makes more sense to me to compare actual stored emails to those > being downloaded from the server, but that is another issue and I will > not pursue it here in the webmail forum as it not related to the basic > subject. Besides it is probably not addressable anyway. > > Eugene > > On Oct 18, 2:19 pm, alanrf <[email protected]> wrote: > > > The Webmail Author has worked very hard to avoid the issue of > > returning a null list when contact problems occur - I have been using > > these extensions for years and have not seen a case in a few years. I > > have seen cases where real POP servers have done this. However, if it > > happens then the result is always that the whole Inbox gets downloaded > > again. > > > That is why it is not a good idea to keep very large numbers of mail > > in the Inbox on the Web server. It increases the overhead of every > > contact and it makes sense, once in a while to move the bulk of the > > saved messages to q custom archive folder on the server. > > > The answer to your question about marking messages as unread on the > > Hotmail Web interface is fairly easy. > > > You have opted to use a feature of the Hotmail extension that, while > > useful, is not strictly complying with the POP protocol and it not > > without its downside. It is important to note that the POP protocol > > has absolutely no recognition of message status on the server as read > > or unread. In POP messages exist or they do not and that is the only > > status known to the protocol. > > > Here's how it works when you select that "unread only" option. > > > When Thunderbird contacts the extension to get the list of messages on > > the server the extension only returns a list of the unread messages on > > the server to Thunderbird. None of the read messages on the server are > > included in the list. So, to be literal about it the extension is > > lying to Thunderbird. However Thunderbird downloads those messages as > > new and the extension *has* to mark the messages as read on the server > > to avoid them being downloaded again on the next contact. > > > Then there are two possibilities and it would depend on your sequence > > of actions (and possibly your Thunderbird settings - like automatic re- > > checking after n minutes). > > > If Thunderbird has contacted the server again to get a new list of > > messages then, because the list can only contain unread messages, none > > of the recently downloaded messages will appear in the list given to > > Thunderbird and Thunderbird has lost all memory of those recently > > downloaded messages. If you then go to the Web interface and mark > > some of those messages as unread then on the next contact they will > > appear as new to Thunderbird and be downloaded again. > > > If, on the other hand, you terminate Thunderbird after your unread > > messages have been read in and then you go to the Web interface then > > Thunderbird's memory will be only of the messages just downloaded. If > > you now mark those messages as unread and then start Thunderbird again > > then those messages will still be in Thunderbird's memory and would > > not be downloaded even though they will remain marked as unread on the > > Hotmail server. This is a rather artificial case for most users. > > > Use of the "unread only" option also prevents the ability to have > > message deletions in Thunderbird reflected back to the server. > > Because it does not comply with the POP protocol and the issues that > > can arise I always advise the folks I support not to use this option. > > > On Oct 18, 7:00 am, KE4AVB <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > None taken...but as you wrote if the extension has a serious enough > > > problem when communicating the site then it could cause the problem. > > > > Can you explain why then Thunderbird after storing the popstate list > > > would TB redownload messages on the next time after you login via > > > Hotmail webmail site and mark them as unread? Your explaination is > > > leading to me think TB is only comparing its list of all messages to > > > the Hotmail site list would not redownload the messages that it had > > > already downloaded even though they now mark as unread. Could this be > > > because get reassigned new id numbers by the hotmail site? > > > > Shouldn't Thunderbird save all it files when it is terminated > > > properly? example: using either the exit command or close program > > > check box in the under right. When I write programs that is one of the > > > first things I do is to have the program check for open files and > > > close those that left open as the exit section executed. I tried to > > > close files as they are no longer needed just keep the data safe. I > > > know if you shutdown Windows or other operating and or simply turn the > > > computer off then program file may not have been saved. > > > > Eugene > > > > On Oct 17, 10:53 pm, alanrf <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Sorry to report that the suggestions made by KE4AVB have nothing to do > > > > with the way things really work (sorry KE4AVB - this is absolutely not > > > > personal but it is technical). > > > > > The decision on which messages to download are not made by these > > > > extensions in any way at all. The decision on which messages to > > > > download are made entirely by the main Thunderbird program. > > > > > This is how it works. Every time Thunderbird contacts the mail server > > > > its first task is to get a list of every email message held on the > > > > server. These extensions act as a POP server. So the extension gives > > > > to Thunderbird a list of every single email message held on the > > > > server. If you keep your messages on the server then Thunderbird will > > > > have saved the list it got last time (it is called the popstate.dat > > > > file for each POP account). Thunderbird compares the two lists and > > > > for every email it thinkls it has not seen before Thunderbird will ask > > > > for the message to be downloaded. When all the messages have been > > > > downloaded and moved to the Inbox on Thunderbird then Thunderbird will > > > > store the new list (I am leaving out some housekeeping like dealing > > > > with deleted messages but they are not totally relevant at the > > > > moment). The important point to note is that if you terminate > > > > Thunderbird before it has a chance to complete and store the new list > > > > then next time round it will not recognize that *some* messages were > > > > downloaded and start over from the earlier point again. > > > > > There is one other more severe condition. If the extension has a > > > > significant problem with the server it can return to Thunderbird a > > > > "null" or empty list. Thunderbird will store that. Next time you > > > > connect to the server successfully and get a good list of the messages > > > > Thunderbird will think that every message is new and will download the > > > > whole of the server's mail contents again. > > > > > To the original poster - there are, you know, valuable add-ons to > > > > delete double downloads but you are knowledgeable to beware of the > > > > issue of the undesirable deletion issue. If you plan to use the value > > > > of duplicate deletion then you should temporarily change your option > > > > in Thunderbird to "leave messages on the server" while you use the > > > > extension. I do not know of an add-on that avoids this > > > > need. > > > > > On Oct 17, 4:24 pm, KE4AVB <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > It could been a server when down and MS restored the data from a > > > > > backup and some of your emails may have not been read before that > > > > > particular back was made. Every once a while I get a few old emails > > > > > download again. Hotmail accounts sometimes develop errors and are fix > > > > > without you knowing it as it may be affecting more than one person. > > > > > Keep receiving your emails and if the dupes are constant then there > > > > > maybe problem with webmail addon; otherwise, it may have been failure > > > > > on MS side. > > > > > > If I remember correctly there is several add-ons for removing the > > > > > duplicates. Search Thunderbird Extensions for the one you like to try. > > > > > > Eugene > > > > > > On Oct 17, 4:31 am, WINUX <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > All of a sudden today, Thunderbird was retrieving my mails again. So > > > > > > now I have alot of messages double and I don't want to delete the > > > > > > doubles as it would probably get my messages deleted from the > > > > > > hotmail > > > > > > server. For a few weeks it did work correct. > > > > > > I use the beta 1.2.25b2 older versions where not working. > > > > > > > Does anyone has an explanation for this? > > > > > > > Thanks in advance --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thunderbird Webmail Extension" group. 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