On 12/12/2011 9:50 PM, Bhatia, Manav (Manav) wrote:
> Hi Danny,
> 
> I had raised a similar point way back in 2008 that we cant assume that the 
> MAC in NTP will always be just 16 bytes.
> 

It already isn't. The reference implementation supports both MD5 and
SHA-1 with different MAC sizes. The reference implementation assumes one
or the other depending on the size and that is obviously not sustainable.

Danny

> http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/ntpwg/2008-December/001435.html
> 
> Cheers, Manav
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] 
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Danny Mayer
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:07 AM
>> To: David L. Mills
>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [TICTOC] [ntpwg] NTP Extension Field without 
>> Authentication
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> You are talking about the current specification. Tal is 
>> talking about changing the specification.
>>
>> I see no reason why it cannot be done, provided we can find a 
>> way for it to be specified in a backward compatible way. The 
>> real question is whether or not it should be made optional. 
>> The parsing rules can always be changed, not necessarily 
>> easily, but it can be done.
>>
>> RFC 5906 (autokey) should require it whatever is decided.
>>
>> Can you remind everyone why we might like to make it not 
>> mandatory? Also we need to have a MAC can we specify the 
>> algorithm/size for the MAC since we shouldn't make 
>> assumptions about this as has been done so far.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> On 12/12/2011 1:53 PM, David L. Mills wrote:
>>> Tai,
>>>
>>> All I can say is read my message again. Doing without the MAC is a 
>>> very special case and unintended by the specification.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> Tal Mizrahi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dave,
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> So you are saying that according to the current spec it is 
>> possible 
>>>> in some configurations to have an extension field without the 
>>>> existence of a MAC?
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Tal.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *From:*David L. Mills [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2011 6:01 AM
>>>> *To:* Tal Mizrahi
>>>> *Cc:* [email protected]; [email protected]
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ntpwg] [TICTOC] NTP Extension Field without 
>>>> Authentication
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Tal ,
>>>>
>>>> It's a little more complicated than it seems. The parsing rules 
>>>> assume that a message digest is always present if an 
>> extension field 
>>>> is present. The NT$ packet header, extension fields and MAC are 
>>>> multiples of 32-bit words. The minimum MAC length is 5 words and 
>>>> maximum length is 6 words. The minimum extension field length is 2 
>>>> words. If the remaining number of words during the parse 
>> is less than 
>>>> 7, the remainder is the MAC. If not, an extension field is 
>> present. 
>>>> The parser updates the parser pointer folloowing the 
>> extension field 
>>>> and tries again.
>>>>
>>>> Thus, if there are at least 7 words remaining and the 
>> extension field 
>>>> eats up all those words, the MAC could be assumed absent . 
>> This is a 
>>>> rather hokey design, but would in principle work.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> Tal Mizrahi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Revisiting an issue that was raised a few months ago and 
>> is yet to be
>>>> resolved:
>>>>
>>>> RFC 5905 defines an extension field. The RFC states that a 
>> MAC must 
>>>> be present when there is an extension field.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, it would be beneficial for various purposes to allow 
>>>> Extension Fields independent of whether the MAC is present.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Some people thought this is a mistake in the spec, and 
>> that it should 
>>>> be included in the errata. Others thought that Extension Fields 
>>>> without MAC are something new that needs to be defined in 
>> a new document.
>>>>
>>>> This was discussed in IETF 81, and then revisited in the ad-hoc 
>>>> meeting in October, but no conclusion was reached.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> It would be great to hear the opinion of the WG and the 
>> chairs about 
>>>> how to proceed with this.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Tal.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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