Ok, let me put it this way. I was trying to propose extending NTP to support 
having an arbitrary MAC size. I was also trying to push HMAC-SHA-1, instead of 
the regular SHA-1.

Cheers, Manav

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny Mayer [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 9:49 AM
> To: Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
> Cc: David L. Mills; [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [TICTOC] [ntpwg] NTP Extension Field without 
> Authentication
> 
> On 12/12/2011 9:50 PM, Bhatia, Manav (Manav) wrote:
> > Hi Danny,
> > 
> > I had raised a similar point way back in 2008 that we cant 
> assume that the MAC in NTP will always be just 16 bytes.
> > 
> 
> It already isn't. The reference implementation supports both MD5 and
> SHA-1 with different MAC sizes. The reference implementation 
> assumes one or the other depending on the size and that is 
> obviously not sustainable.
> 
> Danny
> 
> > http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/ntpwg/2008-December/001435.html
> > 
> > Cheers, Manav
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected]
> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Danny Mayer
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:07 AM
> >> To: David L. Mills
> >> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [TICTOC] [ntpwg] NTP Extension Field without 
> >> Authentication
> >>
> >> Dave,
> >>
> >> You are talking about the current specification. Tal is 
> talking about 
> >> changing the specification.
> >>
> >> I see no reason why it cannot be done, provided we can 
> find a way for 
> >> it to be specified in a backward compatible way. The real 
> question is 
> >> whether or not it should be made optional.
> >> The parsing rules can always be changed, not necessarily 
> easily, but 
> >> it can be done.
> >>
> >> RFC 5906 (autokey) should require it whatever is decided.
> >>
> >> Can you remind everyone why we might like to make it not 
> mandatory? 
> >> Also we need to have a MAC can we specify the 
> algorithm/size for the 
> >> MAC since we shouldn't make assumptions about this as has 
> been done 
> >> so far.
> >>
> >> Danny
> >>
> >> On 12/12/2011 1:53 PM, David L. Mills wrote:
> >>> Tai,
> >>>
> >>> All I can say is read my message again. Doing without the 
> MAC is a 
> >>> very special case and unintended by the specification.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> Tal Mizrahi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Dave,
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> So you are saying that according to the current spec it is
> >> possible
> >>>> in some configurations to have an extension field without the 
> >>>> existence of a MAC?
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> Tal.
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> *From:*David L. Mills [mailto:[email protected]]
> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2011 6:01 AM
> >>>> *To:* Tal Mizrahi
> >>>> *Cc:* [email protected]; [email protected]
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [ntpwg] [TICTOC] NTP Extension Field without 
> >>>> Authentication
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> Tal ,
> >>>>
> >>>> It's a little more complicated than it seems. The parsing rules 
> >>>> assume that a message digest is always present if an
> >> extension field
> >>>> is present. The NT$ packet header, extension fields and MAC are 
> >>>> multiples of 32-bit words. The minimum MAC length is 5 words and 
> >>>> maximum length is 6 words. The minimum extension field 
> length is 2 
> >>>> words. If the remaining number of words during the parse
> >> is less than
> >>>> 7, the remainder is the MAC. If not, an extension field is
> >> present. 
> >>>> The parser updates the parser pointer folloowing the
> >> extension field
> >>>> and tries again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thus, if there are at least 7 words remaining and the
> >> extension field
> >>>> eats up all those words, the MAC could be assumed absent . 
> >> This is a
> >>>> rather hokey design, but would in principle work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dave
> >>>>
> >>>> Tal Mizrahi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> Revisiting an issue that was raised a few months ago and
> >> is yet to be
> >>>> resolved:
> >>>>
> >>>> RFC 5905 defines an extension field. The RFC states that a
> >> MAC must
> >>>> be present when there is an extension field.
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> Obviously, it would be beneficial for various purposes to allow 
> >>>> Extension Fields independent of whether the MAC is present.
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> Some people thought this is a mistake in the spec, and
> >> that it should
> >>>> be included in the errata. Others thought that Extension Fields 
> >>>> without MAC are something new that needs to be defined in
> >> a new document.
> >>>>
> >>>> This was discussed in IETF 81, and then revisited in the ad-hoc 
> >>>> meeting in October, but no conclusion was reached.
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> It would be great to hear the opinion of the WG and the
> >> chairs about
> >>>> how to proceed with this.
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Tal.
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TICTOC mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc
> >>
> 
> 
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