As a recent user of TiddlyWiki, with no coding experience, I agree with a lot of Edgaras has said in his posts. TiddlyWiki is highly customizable, but there is also a high barrier of entry to it.
I think new users would use the lists-link macro, but most of their writing would just be text, with some formatting. And the formatting is already different from most other options around. In almost all text-editors I used a # means a header. But in tiddlywiki it makes a numbered list. Same for *italics* in markdown and //italics// in TiddlyWiki. To me this adds friction, because I need to learn a new formatting style. Yes, there is a markdown plugin for it to work around it, but finding plugins aren't the user-friendliest experience either. Because when I was looking for plugins, there are multiple online lists, personal plugin libraries, and this forum to spit and search through. There is a big time investment to look for plugins that do what you need. I once spent a lot of time trying to do something myself, but only afterwards realising there was a plugin for that case. When there is a build in system (the plugin library) within a TiddlyWiki it is weird to me that it is not being used (outside of just the official plugins). Instead everyone hosts their own plugin and you'll have to find the website and drag & drop it from there. It would be a lot easier and helpful for new users to have a central list of plugins in a plugin library that is accessible from TiddlyWiki within. Thirdly, I agree with the comments about the editor experience. I take study notes that I store in TiddlyWiki. because I think TIddlywiki can serve well as a Zettelkasten-like. But taking them within the text-editor of a tiddler itself isn't that nice of an experience. It is just a plain text box with a lot of buttons and fields around it that can be distracting. I noticed that I gravitated towards taking my notes somewhere else that was easier on the eye and less distracting and then copying my notes in TiddlyWiki. But then I run into the problem that most other text editors use another type of formatting style. In summary, I think these three points can really help new users ease into TiddlyWiki more: 1) Change the formatting towards the common standard (*italics* and #header instead of //italics// and !header) 2) Make user made plugins accessible from within a plugin library in TiddlyWiki. A central place to publish plugins. (instead of them being scattered around online lists and forums) 3) Update the tiddler editing experience to a more modern design that is easier on the eye and less distracting The reason I am still working with TiddlyWiki, is that I also kinda enjoy fiddling with it. I like the potential to be able to fit it to my own needs, something other software doesn't have. And I love it for it (and also because of the help i've gotten on this forum). But I think this isn't the case for a lot of potential users. They just want something that works out of the box and I think the amount of mentions elsewhere of Stroll as a roam replacer is proof of it. People are willing to try out something that is already designed around a user-case, but may be turned away by the friction/upfront time investment that still exists. Op dinsdag 19 mei 2020 02:48:30 UTC+2 schreef Edgaras: > > Definitely I think markdown should be the default to reach broader masses. > The focus should be on easy to use interface, easy markup language. > Tiddlytext can stay for configurations and customisations, but users don’t > need to get there easily, it can be in settings. > > On 19 May 2020, at 02.43, Rizwan Ishak <madapeed...@gmail.com > <javascript:>> wrote: > > Glad you find Tekan amusing. > > So if let me try and summarise. > > If markdown was the main markup system, users would find TW5 more > accessible? > > On Tue, 19 May 2020, 05:41 Edgaras, <edgar...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > >> Mat I think there is a bit of difference tinkering in tiddlytext and >> something widespread and future proof as html/css/js. >> Also there are much more resources, people had every single problem >> thousands of times. >> >> I strongly agree with central place where to publish stuff. Imagine if >> there was a website where top solutions are promoted, voted up. Those would >> get attention and be improved by donations and contributions. Over the >> month with TW I kept discovering great stuff, just couple of days ago I >> discovered Tekan >> <https://ibnishak.github.io/Tesseract/projects/tekan/Tekan.html> by *Riz. >> *Truly amazing example of how TW can be anything. >> >> ––––––––––––––– >> >> *Riz *I am up for a discussion and feedback! I really want to help TW. >> Let me try to explain. >> >> Given that HTML is the target for both >> >> This is not true for me. I only want to publish some of my notes. It's >> important for me to also build a personal knowledge system. With the right >> format and organisation system Niklas Luhmann developed his "second brain" >> – the Zettelkasten modular noting system just by using paper notes. I want >> to achieve similar with modular human readable, file based digital notes. >> Markdown fits perfectly for this purpose, the format is universal, very >> portable, supported by many editors, systems. So I strongly agree with Scott >> here. Markdown is a strong original readable format. I like the idea of >> starting with Markdown (in some cases JSON or CSV) as a base data/model >> format >> and then add logic and structure with html/css/js. >> >> Next very important thing for me is the editing experience. If I spend a >> lot of time writing, I want it to be pleasant and calm. That's why I love >> Typora <https://typora.io/>, a super minimal text editor, doing >> one job well – editing content. The editing interface is separated from >> my data files, I can change to another editor at any time I want. That >> being said, I wish Typora had some of the >> RoamResearch superpowers. And funny enough something like that was >> released couple of months ago – Obsidian <https://obsidian.md/>. I think >> in time we will see more and more editors that are made >> for interconnected thoughts, complex thinking. >> >> I also wish TW would become like that one day – a tool that connects well >> with other workflows and not a monolith system (that is super modular but >> internally). >> >> I use VSCode but it's optimized for coding and not for writing. The >> interface is way too complex for a writing tool. >> >> Maybe that's another thing that I would like to see in TW – much more >> separation between building the tool/tinkering and writing, thinking >> connecting thoughts. It's like when you are driving a car you don't wan to >> see all the engines and electronics (while some people still would enjoy >> that). >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/gX0o8j7Coa8/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> tiddl...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/75d1df71-630e-4940-a7bd-5457dee823b4%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/75d1df71-630e-4940-a7bd-5457dee823b4%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CAO0b0pFAG%2BBgfunT-7kRzbs3qj3oVcoRCqDAn9JfJuFQLN%3DNpQ%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CAO0b0pFAG%2BBgfunT-7kRzbs3qj3oVcoRCqDAn9JfJuFQLN%3DNpQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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