Álvaro I am not sure I agree. If we ask a question in this forum, eg; how to I put background on tiddler titles, they will tell me *a class name, a pallet setting or a tiddler in which it is set.* yes we may be able to reverse engineer tiddlywiki to find such information. yet I do not see why we cant document this so anyone of any skill, can find where or how to style or restyle any element in tiddlywiki. The questions can be asked in advance, and answers given in a reference.
Regards Tones On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 at 23:36:48 UTC+10 Álvaro wrote: > *Ideally all the standard css elements in a tiddlywiki would be > documented.* > > I don't understand it. ¿standard css elements? CSS is the tool and its use > in TW is another way to use it. This use is shown in the style tag, in > the case of TW. I agree that look in styles is tedious. It is easier use > the inspector. But, IMHO, the problem isn't in the non-documentation, it is > in its size. The CSS would need a hard reworked with great refactor. > El miércoles, 26 de mayo de 2021 a las 3:14:33 UTC+2, TW Tones escribió: > >> Gentlemen, >> >> Ideally all the standard css elements in a tiddlywiki would be >> documented. eg I want to change the background of the tiddler title, the >> text color, the icon . Many are documented in a defacto way in the palette >> settings. you can see the class name that is set, but many elements are >> not. even although one could say they are "hard coded" in tiddlywiki ie >> Tiddlywiki has a whole set of classes for various elements on the screen, >> where are they? >> >> Every time someone is looking we tell them (if we know) we use inspect >> and find it for them, but its an an element at a time. What ever the answer >> I want to improve this. >> >> I can imagine a custom edition of tiddlywiki (or content in a tiddler) in >> which mouse over any element has A popup documenting the css used to style >> the element would be a nice addition to the documentation. >> >> Jon - *Are talking here only about users who want to experiment with CSS >> but are guaranteed never to want to progress past a certain point?* >> No, what we need to do document what tiddlywiki does and peoples hunger >> for learning will prosper if it is not such a chore. >> >> Tones >> On Tuesday, 25 May 2021 at 23:28:41 UTC+10 jonligh...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have used Mozilla developer tools for ages and have been using them to >>> write my own custom CSS to over-ride defaults in Tiddlywiki. >>> >>> As soon as you get to CSS an informative tool needs to reflect the >>> cascade otherwise it is not of much use and will probably frustrate users >>> who do not >>> understand the cascade and doggedly poke away unsure why their custom >>> CSS is apparently being ignored - a simple version of a tool that does not >>> tell the whole story can possibly do more harm than good? >>> >>> In addition being able to click on a declaration and see where it was >>> defined by which CSS file is very useful as is being able to test >>> alternative values >>> 'in browser' with those effects being blown away as soon as you refresh >>> is a great asset. I usually work out my proposed changes by this method >>> before >>> changing any real CSS files or tiddlers. >>> >>> Unless browser developers expose the API for the code that interprets >>> the CSS cascade and is able to display it within their own developer tools >>> then would it be >>> necessary to write a CSS processor for this project with the inevitable >>> updates and revisions on account of inevitable discrepancies with CSS >>> standards >>> and developments in CSS? >>> >>> I assume that the Mozilla team work hard on developer tools - so I am >>> guessing a lot of catch up unless large chunks of functionality are >>> available open source, even >>> if catch up is possible then whats to guarantee an easier or more >>> intuitive tool? Presumably the Mozilla ( or whatever browser ) developers >>> are reasonably proficient at >>> usability and have done a reasonable job? >>> >>> I am dubious regards the value of a lesser tool for users who are open >>> to the idea of learning more - eventually they may start asking for the >>> sophistication of browser >>> developer tools and those are already available. >>> >>> Are talking here only about users who want to experiment with CSS but >>> are guaranteed never to want to progress past a certain point? >>> >>> I guess you always run this risk when you develop a cut down or >>> simplified version of something that is already 'out there' - what >>> parameters on project scope >>> are to be put in place to ensure that the final product after much work >>> is actually "wheel number 2" - project scope creep ? >>> >>> Sorry to sound negative :-) >>> On Tuesday, 25 May 2021 at 09:44:39 UTC+1 TiddlyTweeter wrote: >>> >>>> TW Tones wrote: >>>> >>>>> ... Using the ... plugin Internals allows you to preview the html >>>>> generated inside a tiddler ... >>>>> >>>> >>>> Right! >>>> >>>> FYI I often use its as a quick way to copy and paste compliant HTML >>>> into online discussions that will take raw HTML. >>>> >>>> It makes me think what if we provide some alternate tools to do the >>>>> same thing so we can see other elements of the whole page in rendered >>>>> html >>>>> as insight. >>>>> >>>> >>>> One aspect that I'm NOT sure any TW tool could do is show "Shadow DOM"? >>>> I.E. stuff that you can see on-screen but is NOT in the HTML render code. >>>> That includes, for example, things that CSS can insert---and that can >>>> be quite a lot (for instance: any CSS auto-numbering) . >>>> >>>> It seems to me TiddlyWiki is capable of being its own "Software >>>>> development kit" >>>>> >>>> >>>> Well, in many ways it is already that! >>>> >>>> ... and it would be useful if we can provision a few more tools ... >>>>> >>>> >>>> Okay. WHAT specifically, some examples, do you find missing you need? >>>> >>>> Best wishes >>>> TT >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/c44c3557-da28-4adb-96a6-4c93b8b74ec0n%40googlegroups.com.
