It has been done. One I recall is Louis Cupido's Reflock system. TAPR did a kit for it some years back. Fairly sure there are others. But there are a number of readily available 'systems' these days that take a 10 MHz reference input and generate a 'clean' low microwave reference frequency output that minimises the required multiplication. The ZLPLL and the VK3XDK Agile PLL V2 are just two I am aware of.
DaveB, NZ
ZL3FJ

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Albertson" <albertson.ch...@gmail.com> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Using GPSDO as a Refrence for Protable Amateur Radio Microwave Operations


Why to people always build 10MHz GPSDOs?   If the use of the GPSDO is to
drive a microwave, why not build a MUCH higher frequency GPSDO.    Is the
reason that 10MHz crystals just happen to be very good and there are not
good 100MHz ovenized crystals?  Or for portable use could you not use the
1PPS signal to discipline a microwave oscillator.

Scaling up 10MHz is going to make noise, so why not start way higher and do
less scaling

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Eric Haskell <eric_hask...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Hello Time Nuts,  I have been on the group and have promoted it to other
folks for a while but this may be my first post here.

I am microwave amateur radio operator and I have question to pose relating
to the use of GPSDO's with amateur radio for microwave communication.

First, the more generic question.  A friend was discussing using a eBay
purchased Trimble 57963-D for providing a 10 MHz refrence for his portable microwave station (primarly at 10GHz). He wants a clean high stability 10
MHz refrence mainly to lock the station LO. First I think a GPSDO is
overkill for this application and I am thinking that a good surplus
ovenized crystal oscillator should get him to within a few Hz after warm up and a Rb could do better but may have short term stability that may degrade
phase noise of the LO.  I am concerned that a GPSDO is not designed for
portable operations.  Moving it should probably force a new site  survey
which may take a day or more to complete before it goes into disciplining
mode so you would loose any potential benefit of a GPSDO by moving around
frequently. If he wants to do this I think he should leave it connected at
his home location for an extended time (several days at least), then when
he want to go portable (roving), he should
disconnect the GPS antenna entirely to force the unit into holdover mode
maintain continuous power with battery backup which should maintain the
internal OCXO very close to the target frequence and allow the holdover
algorithm to compensate for OCXO for aging and best it can. I would guess
that if he chooses to used the GPSDO with the antenna connected it would
probably never exit the site survey mode and you would have the output
default to the last known good DAC value when it was been disciplined so it
would be operating as a OCXO only (although potentially starting from a
very accurate starting point, if it had been in use at a fixed location for
a good while) before going portable.  Is this a correct view of the
situation?  Any recommendations?

I also know of a fellow who has developed some excellent open source Linux
software to drive an Ettus Research USRP microwave SDR transceiver for
amateur radio microwave applications.  His code also has features to
calculate antenna baring and with other available code compensates for
satellite Doppler shift and/or synchronize digital communication modes
using the GPS coordinates and timing data. He has a built in interface for a Trimble Thunderbolt for this purpose. I think it also might be a better solution to use a OCXO for 10 MHz and a cheap USB GPS sensor for location?
Is there a cheep USB GPS that provides PPS?  Any recommendations?

I have seen simpler GPS controlled 10 MHz sources like the Miller design
that divides down a 10 MHz ref and compares it to a 10 KHz output from a
Jupiter T GPS to tweak the ref freq that may or may not be better suited to this application as it may add phase noise to the LO but would be more real
time in it's GPS correction to the reference frequency.

Regards,


Norman Eric Haskell

KC4YOE

Keller, TX USA
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--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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