Jim
Jim Matiya ![]()
Moraine Valley Community College
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> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [tips] Madonna & Zimbardo? (was Re: TV alert: Human Behaviour Experiments (HBE)
> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:52:41 -0400
>
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 02:03:50 -0400. Stephen Black wrote:
> > On 13 Sep 2006 at 10:59, Annette Taylor, Ph. D. wrote:
> >
> > > And would one of those individuals lucky enough to be in
> > > canada agree to tape this program and make it available to
> > > us lucky enough to be in the us (I guess) for our private
> > > viewing pleasure?
> > >
> > > Thanks to a potentially kind neighbor up north (brrr)
>
> If an electronic version (i.e., CD/DVD) of the program and
> post-program discussion becomes available I'd be interested
> in it.
>
> > [snip]
> > My copy includes the main event, plus an hour of discussion
> > with military and non-military authorities, including the woman
> > who was in charge of Abu Ghraib at the time of the prisoner
> > tortures. She was, not unexpectedly, rather defensive.
>
> This would be Janis Karpinski who was described in the PBS
> Frontline program on Abu Ghraib as "Brigadier General in charge
> of the 800th Military Police Brigade in Iraq, where she supervised
> detention operations at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere." I want to
> clearly identify her because of something that she says later
> (see her comments and more about this program at:
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/paper/reports.html )
> Again, quoting her from the website:
>
> |To date, she is the most senior officer to be punished in
> |the scandal. Karpinski suggests that the individuals
> |court-martialed in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse did not
> |come up with the tactics seen in the notorious photographs
> |on their own. "I know, with no doubt, that these soldiers
> |didn't wake up that morning and say: 'Hey, let's go screw
> |with some prisoners tonight,'" she tells FRONTLINE.
> |". Lynndie England surely did not show up in Iraq with
> |a dog collar and a dog leash."
>
> It would be interesting to hear if she had more to say on
> these points and whether others addressed them.
>
> Stay with me, I'll make the connection to Madonna and
> Zimbardo shortly.
>
> While doing some research on the "Human Behavior Experiments"
> documentary (there is some info on the Sundarnce channel which
> aired it earlier this year) I came across a rather curious letter by a
> person named Carlo Prescott about the Stanford Prison
> Experiment which was published in the Stanford school newspaper
> "The Stanford Daily" and is entitled "The Lie of the Stanford
> Prison Experiment" (a Google search turned this up and you
> can locate it yourself by using the author's name and Zimbardo
> and/or Stanford prison experimnet or see
> http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2005/4/28/theLieOfTheStanfordPrisonExperiment
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/qwycw)
>
> Precott's letter starts off by referring to an article in the entertainment
> trade journal "Variety" which reports that Madonna's multimedia
> company "Maverick Entertainment" is considering making a movie
> about the Stanford Prison Experimnet. I couldn't locate this article
> in Variety through database searches but did find an article in the
> San Francisco Chronicle that confirms this claim. Quoting from the
> article:
>
> |Madonna's company, Maverick, has been tossing around the idea
> |for a movie version of Zimbardo's 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment,
> |but he says nothing's definite yet, and he knows these projects
> |sometimes evaporate. Meanwhile, he's finishing a book, "The Lucifer
> |Effect: Why Good People Turn Evil,'' about "the power of situations
> |to corrupt good people.'' Zimbardo testified at the court-martial of
> |Ivan "Chip" Frederick, accused of mistreating Abu Ghraib prisoners.
> |Frederick was a model of good behavior and all-around niceness
> |when he joined the military, Zimbardo says. Becoming part of the
> |court- martial gave Zimbardo access to records and reports of what
> |happened in Iraq, which is part of his book.
> Leah Garchik. San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.:
> Sep 30, 2005. pg. E.24
> If you have access to proquest, the entire article is available at:
> http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=904683231&sid=2&Fmt=3&cli
> entId=60765&RQT=309&VName=PQD
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/jymsy
>
> Returning to Prescott's letter, his main point is that Zimbardo's
> argument about the "power of the situation" in changing people
> is questionable, in part, because of the part he (Prescott) played
> in it. As Prescott says in his letter:
>
> |I say this not because I am an African American ex-con who
> |served 17 years in San Quentin for attempted murder or one
> |who spoke before Congress on the issue of prison reform. I
> |say it because I was the Stanford Prison Experiment's chief
> |consultant. I armed the Zimbardo, Craig Haney and Curt Banks
> |with the ideas that enabled them to infuse this study with the
> |verisimilitude that it hangs its hat on to this day. And shouldn't.
>
> Prescott goes on to say:
>
> |Regrettably, the gulf between verisimilitude and real prison life
> |is a huge leap of faith that still raises serious issues of validity
> |from the get-go. Nevertheless,ideas such as bags being placed
> |over the heads of prisoners, inmates being bound together with
> |chains and buckets being used in place of toilets in their cells
> |were all experiences of mine at the old "Spanish Jail" section
> |of San Quentin and which I dutifully shared with the Stanford
> |Prison Experiment braintrust months before the experiment
> |started. To allege that all these carefully tested, psychologically
> |solid, upper-middle-class Caucasian "guards" dreamed this up
> |on their own is absurd.
>
> So, Prescott claims that the certain practices like putting
> bags over peoples, etc., were suggested by him to Zimbardo
> and his colleagues (however, as can be seen in HBE not all
> of Precott's recommendations above were implemented).
> If Prescott's statements are true, this might suggest why there are
> such strong parallels between the Stanford Prison Experiment
> and Abu Ghraib: certain types of "old-fashioned" prisoner
> procedures were used in both. It is interesting to note that
> one of the reservists at the prison mentions in HBE that they
> did not have training in being prison guards (though i do seem
> to remember that one of two had been prison guards in real life).
> An unanswered question regarding Abu Ghraib is who told the
> guards what to do and who provided the hoods and the dog
> collar and leash? Does the post film discussion provide
> any answers?
>
> As for Carlo Prescott, I had not heard of him prior to
> finding his letter to the Stanford Daily (I should note that
> there are no comments/responses to it on the webpage).
> I did a search on his name in Proquest and found two
> interesting newspaper articles that mention him:
>
> EX-CON: "MAKING IT"
> Oakland Post (1968-1976). Oakland, Calif.: May 21, 1975.
> Vol. 11, Iss. 58; p. 5
>
> Prison Reform Conference
> Sun Reporter (1968-1979). San Francisco, Calif.: May 26, 1973.
> Vol. XXX, Iss. 21; p. 7
>
> Interestingly, in both articles Prescott is named and in the Oakland
> Post he is identified as "a consultant in a prison experiment at Stanford
> University". Apparently Prescott, who at the time possessed no
> college degree, taught a 10 week seminar at Stanford. The Sun
> Reporter states "...Carlo Prescott, a former prisoner who lectured
> on the psychology of imprisonment under Zimbardo in 1971".
> However, I remind one of the cautions in using of secondary sources
> and the popular media.
>
> Curiousier and curiouser.
>
> -Mike Palij
> New York University
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > Stephen
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.
> > Department of Psychology
> > Bishop's University e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 2600 College St.
> > Sherbrooke QC J1M 0C8
> > Canada
>
>
>
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