Jim raised an interesting point for me - "Another relevant point may be the consequences of the "disappearing males" for grades in university at least (although factors leading to their "disappearance" could have impact prior to university). Females tend to be more conscientious (e.g., studying) and demonstrate other desirable academic qualities moreso than males. If these factors influence grades, then would it again not be expected that larger proportion of females (and perhaps foreign students, re the article that stimulated this discussion?) could produce higher grades? Overall, statistics in Canada indicate about 2/3rds of university students are female."
We just started admitting men. It did seem to me that while we were a womens' college that I did not experience many of the problems that you all talked about at your coed institutions. We have been wondering how much that will change with our transition. For the first time I am seeing some of the issues about classroom etiquette that I have read about from you all. I don't have any firm impressions about grades at this point, but in a few years I should be able to look at changes in grade averages in my own courses. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dennis M. Goff Charles A. Dana Professor of Psychology Department of Psychology Randolph College (Founded as Randolph-Macon Woman's College in 1891) Lynchburg VA 24503 -----Original Message----- From: Jim Clark [mailto:j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca] Sent: Mon 12/21/2009 7:53 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: RE: [tips] Lazy American Students and Their Grades Hi Attached are slides from a talk on our Course Comparison Index (CCI) used at U of Winnipeg to regulate grades somewhat. I collected some data on grade inflation for the talk from a variety of sources. Some of strongest evidence comes from common measures (e.g., in sciences) used for entering students over decades, although perhaps coverage of content could have changed over time. Also appears clear that high school grades have inflated in that entering students (despite representing broader swathe of humanity) have higher high school grades, which have not (always) translated into higher university grades, as demonstrated from data from U Western Ontario. If students enter university with inflated expectations then they may discontinue their studies when those expectations are not met. That is, some kind of selection process operates during and after early years of university. One of other interesting findings is that adjuncts tend to give higher grades than regular faculty. And of course universities have become more dependent on use of part-time people over recent decades. And of course universities have become more specialized (i.e., less Liberal Arts), so that students now get to select most of their courses from specialized areas, rather than students taking broad range of courses. It appears clear, for example, that education students have high gpas (relative to other students) and that they take a large percentage of their courses in education (with elevated grades) and a relatively small percentage outside education (with lower grades). Perhaps pressures to maintain averages for "our" students are even greater within certain faculties and departments than within institution at large. One thing that I have often wondered about but never looked into is the implications for grades of the Flynn effect (i.e., increasing "intelligence" over decades). That is, perhaps students should be getting higher grades if they are becoming more intelligent with each generation. Another relevant point may be the consequences of the "disappearing males" for grades in university at least (although factors leading to their "disappearance" could have impact prior to university). Females tend to be more conscientious (e.g., studying) and demonstrate other desirable academic qualities moreso than males. If these factors influence grades, then would it again not be expected that larger proportion of females (and perhaps foreign students, re the article that stimulated this discussion?) could produce higher grades? Overall, statistics in Canada indicate about 2/3rds of university students are female. With respect to grades and course evaluations, I believe the correlation between evaluations and grades is quite modest, although that could still be consistent with a graduate shift over time in grading practices because of concerns about evaluations. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca >>> "Paul C Bernhardt" <pcbernha...@frostburg.edu> 21-Dec-09 6:24:32 PM >>> Beware, rant ahead, only you can determine if it is a righteous rant or not. The problem appears to me to be determined by three interacting factors: 1) student evaluations of faculty (at least, them being given such heavy weight at some institutions compared to other criteria for RPT*), 2) course drift (meaning that some faculty teach a much less rigorous version that students shop for and reward that faculty member with higher evaluations), and 3) retention pressure from administrators. For me the solution needs to be departmentally established criteria lists for what is to be demonstrated knowledge and skills from each course, including mandated papers for upper division courses with departmentally established evaluation rubrics, required high consequence (at least 25% of course grade) and comprehensive final exams, upper limits on extra credit opportunities, not allowing curving of exam grades, etc. If those things are done, there is no need to worry about setting maximum % of students getting an A, etc. It becomes possible for all the students in the class to excel and deserve and A, and likewise, all the students in the class to earn an F. Linked with those criteria and requirements needs to be evaluation of not only the course design but also evaluation of the instructor's evaluations of students, to ensure that they are hewing to the rubrics, appropriate quality and difficulty of the test questions depending on the level of the course and type of material, etc. That evaluation of the faculty, rather than the evaluation by students should be the one given heavy weight for RPT. It would be wise to have outside, but reasonably related departments, evaluate these issues for entire other departments at the institution on a periodic basis, to ensure that departments are not conspiring internally to make everyone at their private Lake Wobegon look above average undeservedly. The cry that would certainly come from many faculty if such an audacious proposal were to be seriously floated is: "ACADEMIC FREEDOM! I am the expert about my course and I know best how to teach and evaluate the students. Nobody, even those within my department who are also competent to teach my course should dare tell me what I should be doing with the material or requirements." The other cry that would certainly come would be from administrators who would see more students dismissed from the institution, cutting into budgets and creating multiple headaches for them dealing with irate parents. There would also be concerns that graduate schools would not be willing to take on students from the institution, diminishing prestige, etc. But, that presumes grad schools can't be made aware of the new way of running the ship, and therefore wouldn't be able to know that the 3.5 student from the school with a mean graduating 2.9 was a superior candidate than the 3.5 student from the school with a mean graduating 3.2. In my opinion, I doubt we'd see many more be dismissed because a large number of our students have learned that there is no real need to work to maximum capability. This system should motivate them to work to maximum capability. They will earn lower grades, on average, but they would know what their grades meant. OK... rant over... I know it is a completely impossible suggestion. Thank you for your time. I'll now put on my flame-proof jammies. *It is possible that at some institutions the criteria for evaluating faculty are also suffering from grade inflation such that all faculty get excellent ratings on all elements and the only variable that sorts the faculty at all is the student evals, making them of paramount importance. Paul C. Bernhardt Department of Psychology Frostburg State University Frostburg, Maryland -----Original Message----- From: Mike Palij [mailto:m...@nyu.edu] Sent: Mon 12/21/2009 5:56 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Cc: Mike Palij Subject: re: [tips] Lazy American Students and Their Grades Before we start engaging in "Who's got the Biggest Grade Inflation Problem", perhaps it should be noted that grade inflation is a widespread phenomenon, why it even occurs in *GASP!* Canada! Certainly not definitive but one should take a look at the Wikipedia entry on grade inflation (standard disclaimers apply): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_inflation >From the Wiki entry it seems that one solution to the problem is simply having the department/division/school/"whoever has the authority" to mandate that only a certain percentage of each grade can be given in a course. One can use a normal curve to justify such a scheme (but one will have problems with such a justification) or other criteria such as "no more than 15% of a class can be 'A' ". Ties on the borderline will simply have to cry about it. Some people will probably applaud this solution, some will say that it is worse than the problem it addresses. I guess it all has to do with how one thinks about the distribution of intelligence in our students, how many really "deserve" a certain grade, how many do work"we" are satistfied with, etc. Personal Anecdote Department: back some time in 1990s I remember reading an article (popular magazine, not a journal) about grade inflation at, I believe, Stanford (though it may have been one of the Ivy League schools). Apparently students were receiving only As and Bs in courses. The reason for this appeared to be that student could drop a course without consequence up to the 12th or so week in the semester. So, students who saw that they were failing going in the final weeks could drop the course with their G.P.A. unaffected. I think that they changed the policy after it became public but my memory isn't so good on that point. -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:18:13 -0800, Karl Wuensch wrote: > At my university, the undergraduate catalog defines grades this way: >A -- excellent >B -- good >C -- average >D -- barely passed >F -- failed >I -- incomplete > > So, "C" is "average," eh? To check this definition I downloaded >all grades for undergraduate courses for the just completed semester. Here is >the distribution of final grades: >A -- 38% >B -- 30% >C -- 18% >D -- 7% >F -- 7% >I-- 1% > >Mode = A, Mean = B, Median = B. > > I have proposed that the catalog be updated to read this way: > >A - Average >B - Barely average >C - Could have been average if the student had attended class, read >the book, completed the assignments, etc. >D - did worse than Dubya >F - Failed, but if the student begs enough for post hoc extra credit, this >can be changed. >I - I am still trying to decide whether to give the student an A after e put >so >much effort into persuading me it is not e's that e did not get an A and that >I >would be responsible for ruining e's life if I gave any grade other than an A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Christopher D. Green [mailto:chri...@yorku.ca] >Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 12:16 PM >To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) >Subject: Re: [tips] lazy American students > >Nicely stated, Chris. --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly (bsouthe...@frostburg.edu) --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly (bsouthe...@frostburg.edu) --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly (bsouthe...@frostburg.edu) --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly (bsouthe...@frostburg.edu)
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