Hi Don, I don't disagree with what you're saying, nor do I think drugs are universally bad. I've probably used the insulin comparison before myself, but I do believe that the pharmaceutical industry as a whole is less for the common good than it is a money-making business. Big money--billions. Is that wrong? No, because it spurs development of life-saving and life-improving drugs. Quality of life is as important as length of life, too.And I believe there are many compassionate individuals working in that industry. I am pro-drug in many circumstances, and I tend to go around and around in my own mind on this--on the one hand, Big Pharma is exploiting people; on the other hand, many people welcome that exploitation. I think there is a place for the placebo effect as well. It's a slippery slope, and I am the first to admit that I don't have a solid opinion on antidepressants. I've been quite intrigued by the research that shows drugs and psychotherapy both work equally well, and that in fact people may also grow out of depression. I don't have a reference at hand, but Robert Julien's text *Behavioral Pharmacology* has a wealth of information on these topics. I'm also intrigued by the connection between SSRIs, hippocampal volume loss and regrowth, stress, and neurochemicals such as BDNF (brain-derived neurotropic factor). I think the truth is that we just don't know yet what causes depression and what "cures" it, if anything. Meanwhile, people spend their money looking for a quick fix and others are happy to provide something for them to spend it on. Carol
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:35 PM, don allen <dap...@shaw.ca> wrote: > > > > Hi Carol- > > My partner is a former Pharma rep so I know that what you say about > marketing strategy is often true. However, I think that you also have to > appreciate the value of what pharmaceutical products offer for individuals > with "real" diseases. The vast majority of pharmaceuticals treat serious > illness and make life better, or even possible, for millions of people; > think insulin. Before we start throwing stones at Big Pharma maybe we should > look at our own house. How many of us know psychologists who have clients > who have been "in therapy" for years? Where is the data to show that this > type of treatment is beneficial? > > Depression is a serious illness and while antidepressants may be over > prescribed the failure to prescribe antidepressants may lead to a large > number of unnecessary deaths. If memory serves (often it doesn't) a Tipster > posted a study a number of years ago which showed a graph of antidepressant > use Vs. suicide. The curves clearly showed a strong inverse relationship. > Yeah, I know, correlation isn't causation. However, I wouldn't want to throw > the baby out with the bathwater. > > -Don. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carol DeVolder <devoldercar...@gmail.com> > Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:47 am > Subject: Re: [tips] Do antidepressants cause depression? > To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)" < > tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > Hi, > > > > I had a former marketing exec for a drug company visit my pharm > > class a > > couple of years ago. Her talk was fascinating. She spoke of how > > they use two > > methods to promote drug purchasing. One is to create a "new" > > disorder that > > people never knew they had, the other is to take an "old" one > > and suggest > > that the patient's physician has a new treatment. Either way > > they create a > > market for the drug. She had plenty more to say, but my memory > > is on summer > > vacation (an old disorder with which I am quite familiar). > > Carol > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:31 AM, drnanjo <drna...@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think much of the evidence suggest that these drugs are > > being given to > > > people whose depression is arguably mild and would clear up on > > its own with > > > time and/or lifestyle changes. > > > > > > I understand the drugs DO help the severely depressed. But > > there is so much > > > money being made, and Americans are so used to the idea of > > quick-fix > > > strategies that the net for these drugs has been expanded to > > the point that > > > doctors can't (or don't want to) tell the difference between > > dangerous> depression, mild depression and "life's ups and downs." > > > > > > Very troubling. > > > > > > Nancy Melucci > > > LBCC > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Brandon <paul.bran...@mnsu.edu> > > > To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) < > > > tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2011 7:27 am > > > Subject: Re: [tips] Do antidepressants cause depression? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that the problem is defining 'depression'. > > > The results seem to vary depending on how it is defined in > > terms of both > > > severity and qualia, and thus on how subjects are selected. > > > > > > Paul Brandon > > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology > > > Minnesota State University, Mankato > > > paul.bran...@mnsu.edu > > > > > > On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:24 AM, Beth Benoit wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This has made it to Google News, so I suspect it's soon going > > to be a topic > > > of current conversation. The idea that the brains of > > people on > > > antidepressants may lose their ability to make monoamine > > transmitters isn't > > > new, but to say that people taking antidepressants may be condemning > > > themselves to a lifetime of antidepressant use seems arguable. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.frontiersin.org/evolutionary_psychology/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.00159/abstract > > > > > I don't know anything about the journal, *Frontiers in > > Evolutionary> Psychology,* but I see on their website that they > > take advertisements. > > > > > > The abstract for this article doesn't appear to mention > > the possibility > > > that people who don't take antidepressants may not be as > > severely depressed > > > as people who do, though it says they controlled for > > covariates. Of course, > > > there's also the longstanding argument that people have about > > the same rate > > > of recovery from depression whether or not they have any kind > > of therapy at > > > all. > > > > > > What think you, colleagues? > > > > > > Beth Benoit > > > Granite State College > > > Plymouth State University > > > New Hampshire > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: paul.bran...@mnsu.edu. > > > To unsubscribe click here: > > > > > > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13438.3b5166ef147b143fedd04b1c4a64900b&n=T&l=tips&o=11517> > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) > > > or send a blank email to > > > leave-11517- > > 13438.3b5166ef147b143fedd04b1c4a649...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: drna...@aol.com. > > > To unsubscribe click here: > > > > > > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=12993.aba36cc3760e0b1c6a655f019a68b878&n=T&l=tips&o=11518> > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) > > > or send a blank email to > > > leave-11518- > > 12993.aba36cc3760e0b1c6a655f019a68b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: devoldercar...@gmail.com. > > > > > > To unsubscribe click here: > > > > > > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=177920.a45340211ac7929163a0216244443341&n=T&l=tips&o=11521 > > > > > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the > > line is broken) > > > > > > or send a blank email to > > > leave-11521- > > 177920.a45340211ac7929163a0216244443...@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Carol DeVolder, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychology > > St. Ambrose University > > 518 West Locust Street > > Davenport, Iowa 52803 > > 563-333-6482 > > > > This e-mail might be confidential, so please don't share it. > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: dap...@shaw.ca. > > To unsubscribe click here: > > > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13157.966b795bc7f3ccb35e3da08aebe98f18&n=T&l=tips&o=11526orsend > a blank email to > leave-11526-13157.966b795bc7f3ccb35e3da08aebe98...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > > Don Allen > Retired professor > Langara College > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: devoldercar...@gmail.com. > > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=177920.a45340211ac7929163a0216244443341&n=T&l=tips&o=11538 > > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) > > or send a blank email to > leave-11538-177920.a45340211ac7929163a0216244443...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > > > -- Carol DeVolder, Ph.D. Professor of Psychology St. Ambrose University 518 West Locust Street Davenport, Iowa 52803 563-333-6482 This e-mail might be confidential, so please don't share it. --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. 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