Mike, I don't believe that "one" must justify what they believe is over the top or not. I didn't demand that you not make the statement or that you apologize for making it, simply that I thought it was, as I put it "over the top." However (I wouldn't be replying at all if there were not a however), I will justify my thinking. What I found over the top was the assertion suggestion that any yellow soup or chocolate milk served at lunch might in fact be blended, strained, diluted and possibly previously frozen feces. Moreover, was the implicit association made in your post that the lunch being served was asian cuisine. I would ask how many readers made that association to support my claim, but your very own reply references such to illustrate my point of the implicit association.
I defended your decision to make the post and to include humorous commentary yet your reply appears to have as it's only two points: 1) that I didn't read the article and 2) why my personal opinion was wrong. I don't understand the need to do either of these things. By the way your question at the end about reaction to food items mentioned is exactly where I hoped this discussion might go, thank you. Doug Doug Peterson, PhD Associate Professor of Psychology The University of South Dakota Vermillion SD 57069 605.677.5295 ________________________________________ From: Mike Palij [m...@nyu.edu] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:40 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Cc: Michael Palij Subject: RE: [tips] Would You Take S#!t From Anybody? I just want to make a simple point: If one had read the NY Times article, then my comment about yellow soup and chocolate milk might have seen less "over the top" because: (1) Quoting the NYT article: |Fecal therapy has often been used to cure gut trouble in cows |and horses. Books on traditional Chinese medicine mention |giving it to people by mouth to cure diarrhea in the fourth century; |one book called it yellow soup. I'm not sure why someone would see this as "over the top" given the context of the article instead of as a warning to people who use traditional Chinese medicine and alternative and complimentary medicine -- make sure you know what you're ingesting and agree to it. Consider what is one of the main components of the Chinese delicacy "Bird's nest soup". For the curious, see: http://www.livescience.com/21534-edible-birds-nests-health.html (2) Quoting the NYT article: |The researchers studied adults who had been suffering from |C. difficile for months and had had at least one relapse after |antibiotics. They were picked at random to be in one of three |groups. Only one group, 16 people, had the transplant: they |took the antibiotic vancomycin for four days, had their intestines |rinsed and then had the fecal solution pumped into their small |intestines through a nose tube. A second group, 13 people, |had the intestinal wash and 14 days of vancomycin; a third group, |also 13 people, had only vancomycin. | |The donors were tested for an array of diseases to make sure |they did not infect the patients. Their specimens were mixed |with saline in a blender and strained, to produce a solution that |Dr. Keller said resembled chocolate milk. In other words, the treatment was via a nose tube and if the tube was clear, the material would have looked like chocolate milk. After reading the above passages, I think a person could have two reactions: (a) they associate disgust with yellow soup and chocolate milk or (b) they have less disgust associated with the notion of a fecal transplant, especially if one likes chocolate milk (i.e., the positive aspect of one's representation of chocolate milk dominates the negative aspects of ingesting feces). So, would one not view yellow soup and chocolate milk differently after reading those passages? -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu ------------- Original Message ------------------- On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 09:56:19 -0800, Douglas Peterson wrote: I'm bothered by this thread but not for the reasons expressed by Beth or Mike but by the fact that TIPS appears to have no stomach (yes, I said that on purpose) for discussing issues related to psychology and science. I was not offended by Mike's post (I thought the yellow soup/chocolate milk line was over the top) but it didn't stop me from reading the NY Times link (and eventually the the journal article). I'm troubled that the supposed offense and the supposed apology have distracted the group from discussing the types of things I came to expect TIPS to discuss. Here are the types of responses I had hoped to read in response to this post. 1) I think the use of three groups was a good example of multiple control groups to ensure that improvement was not from the preparation process (flushing/rinsing the intestine prior to treatment). I might just use it in research methods class. It also presents an interesting point to open discussion on the ethics since the researches discontinued the study because the of the ethical concern that the control group was potentially being harmed. 2) Isn't it interesting how our concept of feces as dirty inhibits, and in fact triggers a disgust response, to the point where people might resist a treatment with now published efficacy results. Is feces really all that different from blood simply because of cultural associations? Will the pharmaceutical industry develop a name that hides what it is in the "medicine" and at that point will people be lining up for treatment. 3) Wow, 14,000 people per year die from gastrointestinal bacteria! 4) I started thinking about my old dog, who on occasion ate other dog's poop. I use to think he was a stupid dog, but now I wonder if he wasn't just settling his gut, because as I think about it it most offen occurred after a bout of throwing up and the sickness ended. Smart dog after all. A long time reader (and seldom a contributor) who wants the TIPS of old where we can discuss issues and make jokes at the same time. --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: doug.peter...@usd.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=12991.6a54289b29ceb58cb7609cc50e0dc1c8&n=T&l=tips&o=23122 or send a blank email to leave-23122-12991.6a54289b29ceb58cb7609cc50e0dc...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=23127 or send a blank email to leave-23127-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
