Chris--
This seems to have wandered from the original point of whether B. F. Skinner 
was a communist (even with a small 'c').
I'll cede your points (I'm not sure if I still have my undergraduate texts on 
social reform from the early '60s).
I'll just note that socialism did not begin with Marx and Engels.

On Apr 12, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Christopher Green wrote:

> Well, Paul, you sent me back to look at my undergrad copies of the _Communist 
> Manifesto_ and Lenin's _State and Revolution_, which is a good thing.
> 
> While you are correct that _Das Kapital_ was mainly about economics (and 
> history), the _Communist Manifesto_ was a political document through and 
> through. It was a call to revolution addressed to a proletarian audience, not 
> to academics or politicians. 
> 
> In the _Manifesto_, Marx & Engels said: "The theory of the Communists can be 
> summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property," but then 
> they went on to qualify that by conceding that "there is no need to abolish" 
> "the property of the petty artisan and of the small peasant" (p. 96 of the 
> 1967 Pelican edition, trans by AJP Talyor). Bourgeois "instruments of 
> production" (factories and large land holdings) were the clear aim. They 
> specify: "Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products 
> of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the 
> labour of others by means of such appropriation" (p. 99).
> 
> In _State and Revolution_, Lenin has a detailed section near the beginning on 
> the relation between "abolition" and "withering away" of the state. He 
> attributed the latter phrase to Engels (so I had misremembered that part), 
> but noted that elsewhere Engels said that the revolution would "end the 
> state." What would "wither away" (according to Lenin's interpretation) was 
> the remaining bureaucratic apparatus after the state's head had been lopped 
> off, so to speak. That nothing even remotely like abolition or withering away 
> of the state actually happened in the Soviet Union is another matter, having 
> much to do with your correct observation that Czarist Russia was not at all 
> the kind of country Marx had in mind because it was largely pre-industrial. 
> As a result, a whole new theory to deal with what a "proletarian" revolution 
> might mean for a largely agrarian country had to be made up by Lenin and 
> others out of whole cloth -- and this is why the Soviet symbol became the 
> (workman's) hammer and the (farmer's) sickle unified in a cross... And then 
> there was Stalin's takeover when Lenin suddenly died. I have no illusions 
> that the Soviet Union would have become a workers utopia had Lenin lived 
> longer or had Trotsky succeeded him -- revolution nearly always results in 
> multiple warring factions, only the most brutal of which usually manages to 
> get the upper hand on the others (see the so-called "Arab Spring" for just 
> the latest example of this terrible but predictable phenomenon) but Stalin 
> was something else again: the leader of a Georgian organized crime syndicate 
> who saw an opportunity to loot the riches of Imperial Russia if he could just 
> insinuate himself with the right people at a rare moment of complete 
> governmental breakdown. China too: an agrarian monarchy (having nothing in 
> common with the conditions Marx had outlined for communist revolution) 
> overthrown by a brutal, homicidal tyrant who would have taken up any label at 
> all so long as it enabled him to consolidate personal wealth and power. 
> 
> As for kibbutzim and the like, they are tiny models that have no application 
> to the question of entire communist or socialist societies. You will note, 
> whatever your opinion of Israel today might be, that the one thing it did not 
> become was a giant scaled-up kibbutz.
> 
> Chris

Paul Brandon
Emeritus Professor of Psychology
Minnesota State University, Mankato
[email protected]




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