thank you for the props I noticed too...kind of a weird bouncing between Beavis and Butthead perserverence (I laughed at first too but really - going on a half day about it?) and arcane statistical stuff. have a good weekend NJM -----Original Message----- From: Joan Warmbold <jwarm...@oakton.edu> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) <tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu> Sent: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [tips] Roids Might Cause Autism
Nancy--hey, at least you gave me a reasoned response for which I am truly thankful. This in direct contrast to the guys laughing about confusing Roids with hemorrhoids?! So thanks for your thoughtful contribution, really! And have a great weekend. Joan > > My email was nothing more than a suggestion that we remember that all of > this research is correlational. How children turn out on any dimension is > a complex mix. > > Which means that besides the X (poor parenting; stress; day care; genetic > propensity etc) and the Y (child outcome) are 100s of other variables that > might be at play. > > Additionally more children survive their childhoods today than ever > before....more children means more children with all kinds of problems. > Some of which we just discovered (or made up.) > > I wouldn't put too much stock in any explanation - (except for > wholeheartedly rejecting anything to do with vaccinations causing autism. > That one is a bunch of crap.) > > Nancy Melucci > LBCC > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joan Warmbold <jwarm...@oakton.edu> > To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) > <tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu> > Sent: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 2:09 pm > Subject: Re: [tips] Roids Might Cause Autism > > > Nancy, > > Of course I'm not considering a blank slate notion. But why are we > willing to accept the opposite perspective that it's all there from > birth?! First, aren't most of those brain abnormalities also simply > correlational? And aren't they totally ignoring the reality of the > crucial nature of brain plasticity during our early life experiences? > Most of our behaviors are shaped by heredity and by environmental > experiences. But in the last 30+ years researchers don't even bother to > record ANY of the interactions between the parents and their children but > simply the child's behavior. It appears that any type of analysis of > early life interactions in any sense is now viewed as verboten. > > I just wish folks would take a little time to examine the research by > Henry Massie in 1978 where his analysis of home movies revealed a distinct > differential responsiveness from the parents toward their infants > before they had developed any symptoms of autism. But placing fault is so > irrelevant and you, of all people, should know that. Massie provided tons > of family history for each set of parents to help explain why they simply > didn't have the skills and ability to respond appropriately to their > infants and often improved with experience. It surely was not a choice on > their part and it appears that they were doing the best they knew how. But > not everyone is equally prepared and/or properly supported to deal with > the 24/7 overwhelming role of parenting. > > Our quality of parenting is influenced by so many variables: how we were > parented; the amount of stress in our lives; the amount of emotional and > practical support we are provided; how well we have been educated on child > development, etc. Is it a parent's fault if their parents weren't very > positive role models or that they are under excessive stress or that they > feel nervous, inhibited and/or woefully unprepared for their new role? > And how much support does our society provide for parents?! So very > little. Research comparing paid parental leaves among western countries > places us dead last, and research has shown that this does make a > difference. Should that surprise us--I mean really. > > A study on "Maternal leave, early maternal employment and child health and > development in the US" conducted by Berger, Hill and Waldfoger comes to > the following conclusion: > > This paper uses data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth to > explore links between mothers’ returns to work within 12 weeks of giving > birth and health and developmental outcomes for their children. OLS models > and propensity score matching methods areutilizedd to account for > selection bias. Considerable associations between early returns to work > and children's outcomes are found suggesting causal relationships between > early returns to work and reductions in breastfeeding andimmunizationss, > as well as increases inexternalizinggbehaviorr problems. These results are > generally stronger for mothers who return to work full-time within 12 > weeks of giving birth. > > Similar conclusions come from other studies relative to the health of > mother and child when there is pressure to return to work within a very > short period of time post-partum. > > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019339730400053X > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167629600000473 > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661484/ > > And the US lags way behind most other westernized countries, as > Waldenfold's research reveals: > http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1602812?uid=3739656&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104116372477 > > So I do think parents strongly influence their children's development for > better or worse as well as the child influencing how we parent--it is, > indeed a two-way street. But it is two-way. And I don't think we can > take credit for doing a good job as we likely had so many advantages > working in our favor just as I absolutely do not "blame" parents who are > unable to provide their children the necessary support, warmth and > acceptance. > > But your email is one more classic example of why we will continue 'till > kingdom come looking for organic neurological reasons for serious > psychological disorders of all varieties. > > Joan > jwarm...@oakton.edu > > > > > > > > > > >> >> These things - like the rise of day care etc. and other changes in >> family >> life over the past century may exist and yet the origin of the disease >> still have absolutely nothing with failure of parents to engage the >> child. >> Since this is correlational, the hypothesis that the brain is being >> shaped >> by negligent parenting is strictly based on that kind of evidence from >> which we are cautioned not to draw causal conclusions. >> >> Kagan's work gave equally compelling evidence that children shape >> parents. >> It's a two-way feedback loop. >> >> How can you possibly be so sure that the "brain abnormalities" aren't >> hard-wired, given that children and parents shape each other's behavior? >> Are you truly pitching a blank-slate argument here? >> >> I am not asking rhetorically. You seem to be suggesting that it IS the >> parent's fault even as you say you aren't. You contradict yourself. Do >> you >> or don't you? >> The indictment of child development specialists looks like >> window-dressing. Because according to this argument, the horse is >> already >> out of the barn. >> Parental (maternal) self-absorption has already done the damage (since >> the >> treatment is so costly.) >> >> If your child stops smiling at you from a very early age, and you don't >> get that crucial positive reinforcement from the smiles and other >> language >> and non-verbal response, you are going to stop trying. >> You'd have to be totally dense to keep trying to engage a non-responsive >> partner of any age or relationship. It's like banging your head on a >> brick >> wall. Have you ever spent the evening with an adult who is like that? >> >> That would as true of the most devoted stay at home parent (mother, >> since >> it usually ends up being laid at her door - the crime of not trying hard >> enough and not giving up enough on behalf of the child) as it would of a >> daycare using 60 hour a week working parent. If your kid won't engage >> you >> back, you are going to stop trying. >> >> Another hypothesis, equally plausible, a combination of the every >> expanding diagnostic basket of ASD + the fact that parents who are >> probably genetically prone to less social activities (scientists, >> creative >> types, those who are generally prone to being comfortable spending time >> alone) are finding each other and mating and having children who have >> those tendencies too, is contributing to the growth of the diagnostic. >> I >> forgot where I read that - it's not an original idea. >> >> One post hoc explanation is as good as another. >> >> Nancy Melucci >> Long Beach City College >> Long Beach CA >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joan Warmbold <jwarm...@oakton.edu> >> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) >> <tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu> >> Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 6:20 pm >> Subject: Re: [tips] Roids Might Cause Autism >> >> >> The history of research for the last 25 years or so to determine the >> origins of autism is very tragic as we insist on finding some type of >> genetic and/or neurobiological source and nothing definitive has been >> found. This excessive male hormone conjecture will just be another one >> of >> many biological deadend alleys for which thousands of research dollars >> have surely been spent. The folks conducting the research to locate >> some >> type of genetic marker and/or biological explanation have been pulling >> in >> literally tons of funding $$$ but to what effect? And why are we so >> willing to let this ludicrous search for the magic biological bullet >> continue? >> >> My fairly extensive reading of the research seems to reveal that only >> two >> fairly reliable answers to this tragic disorder have been determined. >> The >> first is that very early behavioral interventions can be extremely >> effective but quite costly. The second is that all the various brain >> abnormaliities that have been found in children with ASD practically >> scream out that there has been some serious deficit in their early life >> experiences relative to social engagement. If there is one area of >> agreement it's that these children's social brains have not been >> properly >> wired for processing faces, making eye contact, etc. For example, >> autistic >> children do not process faces well and, if they do, they use a different >> area than "normal" children always use--an area in the right hemisphere >> referred to as interotemporal cortex. Of course, the neurologists are >> assuming that this must be due to some organic, prenatal factor(s). >> Those >> of us who know the crucial nature of early brain plasticity realize that >> early life experiences likely are playing a role. >> >> This is not to say "it's the parents' fault," in any sense of the word. >> To >> the contrary, the blame lies squarely on those of us who are >> well-informed >> in the field of child development and the nature of early brain >> development to not speak up about loudly and clearly. Family dynamics >> have surely dramatically altered in the last 35 years with both parents >> working, the extensive use of day care and the increased dependence on >> technology. I know I will create a ruckus, so to speak, but this is >> where >> one of the very important answers to ASD will be found--early life >> interactions--where Henry Massie started way back in 1978. How sad and >> unnecessary that we have missed all of those intervening years to >> resolve >> and improve the number of cases of autism--and all due to political >> correctness--what a grip PC has on us all. >> >> Joan >> jwarm...@oakton.edu >> >> >>> Simon Baron-Cohen's (cousin of Sacha) research group has published an >>> analysis of Danish birth data in this they compared the amount of >>> several >>> sex >>> steroid hormones (i.e., testosterone, etc.) in the amniotic fluid of >>> boys >>> who went on to develop some form of autism and a matched control >>> group of normal boys. It appears that boys with autism had much higher >>> levels of sex steroids than normal boys (all steroids were elevated and >>> a principal components analysis provides a single "steroidogenic >>> factor" >>> that summarizes these measures). This seems like an interesting result >>> but must more needs to be done before hard claims can be made. >>> >>> The mass media has picked up on this research and one sources is >>> the following: >>> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/03/boys-with-autism-likely-exposed-to-more-hormones-in-the-womb >>> and another is: >>> http://www.the-scientist.com//?articles.view/articleNo/40131/title/Autism-Hormone-Link-Found/ >>> >>> The original article was published in the journal "Molecular >>> Psychiatry" >>> and >>> available for free at: >>> http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp201448a.html >>> >>> -Mike Palij >>> New York University >>> m...@nyu.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: jwarm...@oakton.edu. >>> To unsubscribe click here: >>> http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=49240.d374d0c18780e492c3d2e63f91752d0d&n=T&l=tips&o=37023 >>> or send a blank email to >>> leave-37023-49240.d374d0c18780e492c3d2e63f91752...@fsulist.frostburg.edu >> >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to tips as: drna...@aol.com. >> To unsubscribe click here: >> http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=12993.aba36cc3760e0b1c6a655f019a68b878&n=T&l=tips&o=37031 >> or send a blank email to >> leave-37031-12993.aba36cc3760e0b1c6a655f019a68b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu >> >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to tips as: jwarm...@oakton.edu. >> To unsubscribe click here: >> http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=49240.d374d0c18780e492c3d2e63f91752d0d&n=T&l=tips&o=37033 >> or send a blank email to >> leave-37033-49240.d374d0c18780e492c3d2e63f91752...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: drna...@aol.com. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=12993.aba36cc3760e0b1c6a655f019a68b878&n=T&l=tips&o=37051 > or send a blank email to > leave-37051-12993.aba36cc3760e0b1c6a655f019a68b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: jwarm...@oakton.edu. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=49240.d374d0c18780e492c3d2e63f91752d0d&n=T&l=tips&o=37052 > or send a blank email to > leave-37052-49240.d374d0c18780e492c3d2e63f91752...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: drna...@aol.com. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=12993.aba36cc3760e0b1c6a655f019a68b878&n=T&l=tips&o=37053 or send a blank email to leave-37053-12993.aba36cc3760e0b1c6a655f019a68b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=37056 or send a blank email to leave-37056-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
