On 30.11.25 09:57, John Mattsson wrote:
If you interpret the word “standard” as defined in United Nations A-HRC-53-42,"The term “standard” refers to an agreed norm defining a way of doing something in a repeatable manner."
Is this how most people in the IETF interpret this term? I don't think so and the argument of mixing and matching definitions from outside applies here as well. IMHO, we should attempt for complete definitions of our own, rather than letting people import their desired definitions or interpretations from outside.
Besides, in my naive understanding (sincere apologies again if I am missing/misunderstanding something), D. J. Bernstein's concern seems to be on the word "profile", rather than "standard".
In general, I think we agree that there is an ambiguity in "application profile standard", and things are left over to interpretation, which is leading to misunderstandings.
IMHO, a collaborative way to solve this is to perhaps write a clarification document addressing D. J. Bernstein's concerns. I would assume that would need some lengthy debates. Perhaps that is too late to make RFC8446bis wait for it to resolve? Hence, a proposal for a small new draft.
-UsamaPS: While I am mostly in agreement with Ekr and John (except for the above UN interpretation), having seen the notice of moderation of D. J. Bernstein's posts and to be fair with him, personally I will not post on this topic any further until one of his posts land in the mailing list to give him equal opportunity to clarify/defend his perspective/position.
PPS: I am not super invested in this topic in the long term. This is probably not something I can formally prove to be correct or wrong. It is most likely just a matter of definition: one can define it one way or the other, leading to very different results. Nevertheless, I do believe it's important to resolve for us to peacefully work towards the shared goal of securing TLS rather than having to deal with appeals. So if that helps, I am volunteering to initiate a draft to try to resolve any misunderstandings and at some point in time, shift the draft over to one of you to move it forward.
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