>And it's even worse because you are FUCKING RIGHT! It makes me
>puke to read
>comments like the one that James Cook sent "My personal
>impression of you is
>in the toilet now", or Gomez Henri "IBM == xml.apache.org and SUN ==
>jakarta.apache.org". Where were you KIDS when we were fighting the big
>corporations to have them looking into open source, to contribute
>significant parts of their technologies to the Foundation,
>where were you
>while we were changing this world? You were home, and one day,
>you looked up
>on your browser, saw a thing called Jakarta and started
>weening if things
>weren't as nice as you wanted them.
I sent a couple of hours a mail about commenting TC3 and TC4/JServ2 and
all the thanks for you to have provided such an alternative.
But the mail arrived just too late, and get back flame on us.
I couldn't speak for others but I'm just 35 years old and
in OpenSource for at least 6 years. I started to help in both
coding and lobbying for OpenSource use when a co-worker
(died now) René Cougnenc (a friend of Remy Card ext2 creator)
went at job to install on a Dell 486sx25, five disks with a
pre 0.98 Linux system.
The alpha networking code crashed our Sun's network and
we have to take a look in source to locate the problem.
Since that time I promoted OpenSource products in all the companies I worked
for.
I've done that for Linux, GCC, PERL and Apache HTTP server.
Just to note that I'm not really a kid and that I've done my part of
job in pushing the OpenSource concept.
Thanks to my actual employeer (SLIB), I could even spend time
during my job to package some RPMs to help others users
(everyone is not a developper) to install and discovers
many OpenSourced products (from jakarta.apache.org, xml.apache.org or
others).
Because I think that OpenSource will gain much more users
with easy to use packaged solutions than with great design and coding.
That's my VISION.
You could take a look at ftp://ftp.falsehope.com/home/gomez/ to
see what I've done on packaging.
>Let's start from the always recurring problem, Tomcat 3.3: I'm
>so glad to hear that people like Paul Frieden (the only person that did
>put some salt in what he said) are using Tomcat 3.2 in their products. That
>makes me feel alive, that makes the work we made in the last three year
>worth something.
I also use Tomcat 3.2 on production servers. I use it since the first M1.
So when I'm worried about production, deployement, memory conso, I speak
d'experience.
>You're completely right Paul. I don't want you to loose one
>single cent of your investment. Being a member of the ASF, you have my
>personal warranty that it won't happen. I'm not asking to drop any kind of
>support from the 3.x tree, neither to close the bug-fixing process. But
let's
>see what is _exactly_ happening: from what I see in the commit messages,
>it seems to me that even if on an evolutionary track, the container
structure
>is completely different between 3.2 and 3.3. The architecture is almost as
>different as 3.2 and 4.0. What does it mean? That if you, Paul, are going
>to pick up 3.3 as your next servlet engine, you will probably have to fight
>with more or less the same quantity of issues you would have to deal with
>if you picked up 4.0.
I hope to see 3.2 tree maintened for some times. It's the reason why I
switched
for ApacheJserv to 3.2M1 after a little step by the now dead Tomcat 3.1.
>So, here we are: bugs... Let's see a little bit what's
>happening in the 3.x tree. Who is actually FIXING the 3.2 bugs and trying
to get a better
>container on the old architecture? Not certainly Costin, Nacho or the
>others, they are all so busy in rearchitecting the container, and
>back-porting features from 4.0 that they don't have time to
>maintain the old codebase.
Sorry but all my recent commits were for the 3.2 base. I even adapt some
patches
from 3.3 source tree (ajp). I add french localized messages to 3.2 but
still not to 3.3.
>Kudos go to Craig, and his team (apart from me,
>since I'm working on other sides of the code in 4.0)
>to find those bugs and fix them. And of
>course he's doing that while he's trying to get 4.0 out of the door.
You could note that I also package RPM for Tomcat 4.0 even if the
build is told so complex. I spend time on that project too.
>Sorry Costin, but I feel betrayed by you. Two weeks ago we had
>a pleasant conversation in your office, and I was looking straight to
>your face when you told me that 3.3 would have been a bug-fix and
performance
>only update of 3.2. This is not what's happening. You're not fixing them,
you're
>re-architecting a new container on the ashes of 3.2, but you
>are not doing what you promised ME, you're not supporting your baby...
>You're going against what we decided and agreed upon. You are
>loosing my respect, my friend...
I'm sorry to see two friends in such situation for a piece of code.
Catalina is your baby, TC 3.3 is Costin baby why couldn't you find
a way to consiliate the 2 babies. I'm pro 3.3 since I feel it too
be much more well supported since its father is still actively supporting
it. As a developper I could understand that fixing an outdated version
is still borred and will take too much time to 4.0 developpers.
>So, here I stand, my vote is a big -1 on a 3.3 as a newly architected
>servlet container, +1 on fixing bugs on 3.2 (actually 3.2.1 since Craig
>excellently pulled out all those security issues), +1 on improving
>performances on 3.2.1 (and I don't care if it's going to be
>called 3.2.2, 3.3 or 3.9, fuck release numbers on 3.x) and a big +1 on
>Catalina as the base servlet container for 4.0 no matter what this is our
>future, whether you like it or not. All other containers, please wait for a
5.0.
The future of Tomcat 3.3 seems to be outside Apache now.
It's really sad.
>And for once, so, my votes are in disagreement with you, Jon... :)
>As one of the people behind the scenes since before each of
>you got here, I believe my vote counts, and now, please prove me wrong.
I don't want to appear as a someone disturbing the Tomcat Project,
it's really sad to see that Jon show as a personal attack some
answers on TC 3.3.
I propose to commiters to vote to drop my COMMITER STATUS.
I'm sorry but English is not my primary lang, and I couldn't really express
'le fond de ma pensée' on this.
