Shapira, Yoav wrote:
Hi, I read the original thread again. Some of Costin's objections are no longer relevant (e.g. Struts and log4j moving out of Jakarta). Some of the pro-community arguments (paraphrased as tomcat brings more visibility to other jakarta projects) I don't think change if tomcat is its own top-level project.
To be honest - my objections no longer matter.
This whole "move out" is started by different groups outside jakarata who felt jakarta was getting too big ( and their favorite projects got less attention or recognition ).
I currently agree with Mladen that it would be much better to "move out" of apache altogheter.
I already quit Ant pmc and project ( they implemented the board recommandation to remove the names of the authors from their code - which I consider incompatible with my principles and open source practices ). Currently tomcat is the only project that keeps me around in ASF.
Yes, I also send my negatives remarks to the related lists.
Fact is - in Jakarta or as TLP, tomcat code will still be under the control of the ASF board, and will still be owned by ASF - with no real
legal rights for the tomcat committers. Well - the 3 or 4 of us who are "members" ( Remy, Craig, Justina, Pier ) do have a vote in electing the board and are theoretically copyright holders of the code. And it is true that ASF is usually hiding the reality of its legal organization - so most of the time we can just ignore it.
For a long time I tought we could have an environment in jakarta where developer opinion matters - even if it means readings hundreds of emails and flame wars on jakarta-general or pmc. And I tought that I can ignore the parts of ASF I don't agree with - like it's top-down management and lack of real legal rights for developers over the code they work on.
I see more and more ASF commiters complaining about various Board decisions, so it may be time to see if ASF is a democratic organisation, where peoples (not just members) opinions count (and as such they could make change some recent decisions).
If it's not the case, well it may be time for many of us to fly to others land, and try to reconstruct a developpment community where people (developpers) have their word to say in all decisions and don't let bureaucraty decide what they should do.
After all, we're not pay by ASF, and for example I'm more than unhappy to see @authors tags (or whatever in native land) removed by others.
That's why Tomcat should became TLP, having it's own PMC which could and should contest board decision when they appears bad.
For now Tomcat is just one of the various jakarta projects and as such we could see jakarta PMC take decisions we don't agree with.
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