I’ve been having a lot of fun with FT8 but it certainly has not replaced CW for my DXing.
I do 80M-specific DX Marathon each year. So far this year I have 107 80M DXCCs worked - 104 on CW and 3 on SSB. And none that I needed FT8 or RTTY for. I will agree, if a guy doesn’t do CW, FT8 is probably going to be a big part of his DX diet. DXpedition rates are fun to listen to when they are doing 200+ an hour. Right now FT8 (non-DXpedition mode) tops out at maybe 25 an hour when there are no problems. The instant you have any sort of sequencing problem, the rate can drop to 2 an hour. The experimental FT8 DXpedition mode may alleviate (through parallel ongoing Qs) morning be guys sequencing problem from bringing everything to a halt. Tim N3QE > On Mar 30, 2018, at 11:10 AM, <daraym...@iowatelecom.net> > <daraym...@iowatelecom.net> wrote: > > IMHO, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the demise of CW (alas). > Between FT8 and RHR, topband standings as we have known them are virtually > meaningless. The guy with a backyard vertical, reasonable radial system, > and 100w can easily accomplish on topband (and get equal DXCC credit) what > has historically taken a significant effort. . .QRO, large antennas/arrays, > and receive antennas. As for the DXpeditions, they will quickly migrate to > this mode with the improving QSO throughput as it requires comparatively > little skill on the part of the operators. For me personally, it is > disappointing to watch it all unfold. But unfold, it will. 73. . > .Dave, W0FLS > > -----Original Message----- From: k1zm--- via Topband > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 6:50 AM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Straws in the Wind ....A 160m Dx'ing Sea Change is Upon us! > > Hello Gang > I am probably not the only one who has been paying attention lately, but I > may be the first to comment directly on what has been taking place right > before our eyes the past two nights on 1.836kHz - and its possible > implications going forward for future Dx'ing on 160m. Pls read on. > > I am sure most readers of these pages are well aware of the current > dx'pedition to Malawi operating as 7Q7EI. Norbert DJ7JC has been a real > trooper working the lowbands and has had quite a bit of success doing so - so > well deserved kudos & thanks to Norbert. Norbert has managed to make quite a > few NA stations happy with a NEW ONE on Topband and we all very much > appreciate his efforts - well done Norbert - thank you! > > So what I am about to comment on next IN NO WAY is an negative opinion on > Norbert - it is just an observation as to what is now occurring and its > possible implications for all of us who like to work DX on 160M!. > > On or about 27 March, Norbert tried 160M CW operating on 1830kHz - in his > grayline period - and was heard by a number of stations including NO3M and me > here at VY2ZM. Others were in there too perhaps - Kaz K8KS may have been > another and a few more as well. I also heard some EU stations in there > calling among the NA stations. > > About 0228z, Norbert asnwered me as UY2ZM - went QRZ a few times but QRNN on > his side prevented a legitimate qso. I heard him fine but I know he did not > copy my callsign correctly - and later he even said so over ON4KST noting "I > heard a few callers, mainly from EU but logged no NA or EU qso's on Topband - > so I went back to 80M CW as the sun came up." > > The next night Norbert came on ON4KST chat and announced that he was going > to try 1836 using the new FT8 Dx'pedition mode now in beta trials following > its release by K1JT. I am told that the dx'pedition version of FT8 will also > be used experimentally by the upcoming KH1 Dx'pedition. > > Dx'pedition Mode - offers some unique promise when and if it ever is fully > conceived including: > > 1) A shortened qso sequence using only 2 of the traditional FT8 required QSO > elements > 2) The promise of simultaneous qso's between Multiple HOUNDS and the FOX (in > this example the FOX was 7Q7EI) > 3) The potential, as a result, of up to 300-400 qso's per hour may be > possible one day - which would improve the overall qso totals of any > dx'pedition - IF this ever becomes REALITY. > > So on night two Norbert came up on FT8 dx'pedition mode - first on 80m and I > managed to work him fairly quickly here at VY2ZM. > > Others worked him as well - as we all struggled to learn exactly how to > operate this new flavor of FT8. It is a bit tricky and I invite anyone > reading this who may be interested to take a look - because Dx'pedition mode > uses special settings within WSJT-x - and one must configure things exactly > right - or it just does not function as one might expect traditional FT8 to > function in order to complete qso's. > > Nearer to his SR, Norbert went to 1836 and I think he may have worked a > couple of NA stations - I tried but without success because I did not pay > close enough attention to ON4KST - and I came to 160m too late in the game to > have a good shot as he went into daylight on his side. > > So what is going on here exactly? And why did I choose to make this post to > Topband? > > The answer is fairly simple and stems from what I observed this past summer > on 6M during the Sporadic E season. I happen to like to work 6M E during the > summer and was all set around the end of June for what I hoped would be a > great E season on 6M CW into Europe. I worked a couple of stations on CW in > late June but during the first or second week of July, K1JT released the > production version of FT8 and almost immediately everyone realized its > potential (particularly those in the Mid and Far Western USA) - where it was > immediately called a "GAME CHANGER" by K7JA and others on the Left Coast. > > > Well - it SURELY WAS A GAME CHANGER - because I did not hear a single CW DX > station out of Europe on 6M for the rest of the summer E season after that - > everyone had qsy'ed to 50.313 to work FT8 - because it WORKED so well on 6M - > even on E skip paths. And since I did not have FT8 capability - I was > TOTALLY SHUT OUT and had NO 6M E season of Dx'ing - BUMMER! > > > So how does this apply to Topband? Pls read on..... > > > Last night was NIGHT 3 into NA on the lowbands from 7Q7EI - and Norbert was > back - first on 160m on 1836 from about 0130z - until around 0320z - again on > FT8 - in dx'pedition mode. By now, most of us had downloaded the dx'pedition > mode version of WSJT-x and had sort of figured out how to do the parameter > settings correctly - so quite a few QSO's ensued. > > > I happened to be one of the lucky ones on 160M - there were quite a few > others. > > > Watching my screen though (along with KAZ K8KS) it was clear that K1JT still > has some clean up work to do to refine the dx'pedition mode software - > because the promise of 300 qso's per hour is not yet possible - but I think > the throughput rate will one day improve materially. (:Last night the > throughput was SO SLOW that some suggested to Norbert that he stop using > dx'pedition mode in favor of the more reliable current release of FT8 that is > on the air today.) > > > Norbert also elected to stay on FT8 - despite many requests from those > constrained by CW only capability to move over to CW mode - so those without > FT8 basically sat on the sidelines last night watching all of this transpire. > My thoughts at the time were - "Here we go again! This is 6M E season "DEJA > VUE all over again - the 6M E migration to Ft8 was now happening all over > again - but this time on 160M - and it suggests a real possibility of it > becoming the choice of major dxpeditions going forward - meaning - FT8 is > likely to be used on 160m far more regularly going forward and CW mode > utilized much less perhaps (maybe!). My crystal ball is no better than yours > - but if FT8 dx'pedition mode gets perfected by K1JT and becomes more > EFFICIENT one day than CW mode - you can be SURE that it will become very > popular and it will get used far more (at the expense of CW) by the rarer > Dx'peditions when they choose to QSY to Topband! > > > You can take that to the BANK! > > At one point, Norbert who was on CHAT all night long - lamented some of the > comments he was seeing by others on CHAT. Basically, while he was more than > courteous, it was clear that he felt like "HEY! I am the FOX here.....I get > to choose to operate whatever mode I think will work - and those sitting in > their comfortable chairs back at home (and not sitting in the heat here on > the shores of Lake Malawi - really do not get to decide this.!! Again, I am > the FOX here.......) Basically, Norbert was right on here - IMHO.... > > Some more observations: > > 1) Experimental FT8 qso's are not completing reliably as they should - at > least not yet all the time - for example: K8KZ was clearly seeing 7Q7EI > calling him on his screen for at least 20 mins before the software linked up > at each end to sent the RR73 message - the signal that the QSO was complete. > > And Norbert was clearly "seeing" K8KS for the same 20 mins - before they > linked up to finalize and log the QSO. I had similar problems on 160M when > working Norbert - so it is clear that K1JT has some more work to do,. But, we > do have to realize that this is still only a BETA/experimental release - and > YES - it does have some glitches and bugs yet to be ironed out. > > But it does work (after a fashion) and I am sure it will get better - and > WHEN IT DOES become a fully functional PRODUCTION RELEASE, I do think we will > witness some MAJOR operating changes going forward when working future > DX'peditions and even when casual dx'ing on 160M - which is happening every > night on 1840 today. I am seeing Wal W8LRL most every night - and am > dabbling in it myself as is my XYL Miriam VY2HH - so old dawgs (like me) are > being forced (sometimes kicking and screaming) to learn new tricks. > > One final comment: > > This all took place on 1836 and I think on 3569 down on 80m these past few > nights. Traditional FT8 (according to the ARRL 160m bandplan) takes place on > 1840. So I am hopeful that the migration to the new mode continues to take > place in an orderly fashion because FT8 and CW really will not mix well - > should FT8 start showing up below 1830 that will cause problems - (just my > opinion) - but reality I think. > > So - I think that is the lot for now. Not much more to report - but for sure > - "A change is coming to Dx'ing on 160M - there is NO DOUBT about it - I do > not think this is a passing FAD. "DIGI-WIGI" or its other name "JINGLE > BELLS" looks like it is here to stay!!! > > 73 JEFF K1ZM/VY2ZM > > > > > > > Jeff Briggs > DXing on the Edge: The Thrill of 160 Meters > Available worldwide through BookBaby, Array Solutions, DX Engineering, Royal > Society of Great Britain, & Amazon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _________________ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _________________ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband