Some kind person got permission and put this copyrighted paper online: https://www.okdxf.eu/files/Ground%20Systems%20-%20Brown,%20Lewis%20and%20Epstein%201937.pdf
Dr. Brown was noted for such things as having assistants erect a dipole, connect a 50 KW transmitter, and take impedance measurements. Also: https://ipo.llnl.gov/sites/default/files/2020-07/NEC5%20Validation%20Manual%20092419.pdf Has an extensive discussion (near the end) of radial systems. All free access to read.. JIm/VEZ On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 2:37 PM fmoeves <fmoe...@twc.com> wrote: > I was under the impression that If you have elevated radials and if you > take even one to the ground you might as well move all to the > ground..??Fred KB4QZH > -------- Original message --------From: donov...@erols.com Date: > 12/29/20 12:30 PM (GMT-05:00) To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: > Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? Hi Clive, A second > resonant radial is a good idea, but not because it might cancel > horizontally polarized radiation. Why? Because -- just like a Beverage -- a > horizontal wire close to the ground has no significant horizontally > polarized radiation. Essentially all of the horizontally polarized > radiation is lost to ground losses. 73 Frank W3LPL ----- Original Message > -----From: cl...@gm3poi.com To: donov...@erols.com, topband@contesting.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 5:25:05 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Elevated > Radials - will radials on ground help? Frank what about adding another > radial to each vertical to cancel the Horizontal polarisation from the > single radial. 73 Clive GM3POI -----Original Message----- From: Topband > <topband-bounces+clive=gm3poi....@contesting.com> On Behalf Of > donov...@erols.com Sent: 29 December 2020 17:01 To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? Hi > Dan, Your small lot is an ideal candidate for K2AV's folded counterpoise. > Contact K2AV for guidance, he's helped countless successful users. > www.k2av.com A few clarifications regarding radials and gain: Radials > have absolutely nothing to do with gain. They only reduce ground losses > within a fraction of a wavelength of the antenna. The realistic > opportunities to further reduce losses are: - install the antenna on salt > march like K3ZM and W1KM, or - install the antenna closer than one mile to > sea water in the foreground of the antenna for at least a few miles in the > most important directions. But you've already done that. Bravo! Good luck! > 73 Frank W3LPL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Flaig NP2J" < > d...@np2j.com> To: donov...@erols.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 > 4:41:40 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground > help? On 2020-12-29 10:06, donov...@erols.com wrote: > Hi Dan, > > An > inverted-L with one elevated radial has lots of room for > improvement, > > almost anything will improve what you now have. > > How much improvement > you can achieve is mostly determined by site > limitations, copper wire > expense, how much work you're able do > yourself or pay someone else to do > for you. > > Eight radials, 70 feet long is the absolute minimum number of > radials > if you lay them on the ground. Sixteen 80-foot radials will be > much > better, > 32 100-radials will be significantly better than that. > Finally 60 > 125-foot > radials will be within one dB of the best you could > achieve. > > This is the classic reference: > > > ncjweb.com/bonus-content/k3lcmaxgainradials.pdf > > If you continue to > use resonant elevated radials, four is the minimum > number your should > shoot for, but unfortunately its difficult to get > all > four elevated > radials to carry similar amounts of current. Eight > elevated > radials is > much better. > > The K2AV Folded counterpoise is another alternative to > your > current single elevated radial. > > Good luck! > > 73 > Frank > > W3LPL > > ------------------------- > > From: d...@np2j.com > To: > topband@contesting.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 1:58:53 PM > > Subject: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? > > Hello > fellow Topbanders! > > Had lots of fun in the Stew, thanks for the contacts > everyone! > > Looking forward to the CQ160 and as always trying to find a > way to > improve antenna performance.... so looking for advice > > I am > currently using a pair of Inverted L's each having a single > elevated > radial. > The feedpoint's and elevated radials are 10-12 feet above ground. > > The soil is fairly rocky. > Also quite a bit of "Bush" growing fairly > high except below elevated > radials where I have trimmed back the bush. > > > I am wondering if I should lay radials on the ground, particulary near > > > the feedpoint's? > Any advice?? > > 73 > Dan K8RF/NP2J > > _________________ > Searchable Archives: > http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector Frank, Thanks > for the reply. My lot is narrow and runs North to South. The elevated > radials run towards the North, figured might have small amount of gain in > that direction. I could maybe add one or two additional elevated radials > but they would be only angled a few degrees plus or minus from the current > single radial going North. I am on side of ahill at abt 300 feet elevation > about 3/4 of a mile from the North shoreline. 73 Dan _________________ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _________________Searchable Archives: > http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > _________________ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector