> Chris, the overall problem in all of this is still that you are selling
> the very kinds of systems that you are so critical of in public.
That's an utterly misleading statement. Your clearly referring to the Librem
and I'm critical of it not because it's any more or less freedom friendly
than our systems. I'm critical of the guy behind it's claims that it is/was
100% free or would be or could be in the near future.
However we knew that couldn't happen. He originally designed it with *NVIDIA*
chips without a good reason to do so for we all know are dependent on a
non-free NVIDIA driver. Earlier versions of the chip didn't even work with
the free nouveau driver.
ThinkPenguin *HAD* the best systems for years. We're only slightly behind.
However even if we release an ARM based laptop/desktop it won't matter for
the majority of people out there. It won't be a good option for helping these
people move off of non-free software. To that I say I'm not going to stop
encouraging people to move away from non-free software just because some
people are more abled and determined to get away.
Anybody who says they won't use any non-free software is a hypocrite. Until
recently all systems were dependent on a non-free BIOS and/or other pieces
and even still there are non-free pieces hiding in our devices including Mini
free's.
The person *most* opposed to non-free software in the entire universe is even
using some non-free pieces. We're all just doing our best to avoid as many of
those non-free pieces as is humanly possible- short of abandoning any
technology altogether.
> You
> tell people that we need to move to fully free systems, and criticize
> the libreboot project for being a "dead end" focusing on certain
> hardware that you identify to be a non-solution freedom-wise,
I never said it was a non-solution I said it was a dead end going forward.
Which it is when you can't load it onto any modern X86 system because of
digital locks that prevent it. The only solution is to move away from Intel
and at that point you don't need libreboot.
> all while
> you are selling systems on ThinkPenguin that have *proprietary BIOS*.
>
Yes- and that doesn't change anything. We're still working torward systems
more free hardware. Your systems aren't 100% free either. You even stated
here that the ARM systems will be more free than the Lenovo's your currently
selling! And even after all this the ARM systems aren't perfect either.
Trying to make it out as if I'm some sort of hypocrite is ridicules. I'm no
more a hypocrite than anybody else in the movement. I don't care if you talk
about Richard Stallman, Rubén Rodríguez, Jason, myself, Bob, you, or any
other person. We're all using some non-free software. I don't argue it's
somehow 'right' to use this software, but short of getting off these forums
your as much a hypocrite as I am.
> If I were in your position, I would not be selling those laptops and
> desktops that you sell. You are saying that the money raised helps fund
> future work on free hardware, but at the same time you're also selling
> systems to people that do not adequately respect their freedom, while
> preaching to people who do supply such systems for being "imperfect".
>
> This is why you're a hypocrite.
First off we were selling systems that were as free as it got long before you
were even around. It's hardly hypocritical to suggest we should just stop
because your here now. Your not in a position to keep anything going. We are
very close on the other hand.
2nd the people we are primarily selling to are on *proprietary systems* and
anything that we sell them even if our systems were more proprietary than
then they are now would still be *more free* than they would otherwise have
been. It's still a net benefit.
Life isn't black and white as your trying to make it out to be. We're just
doing the best we can with what we have to work with.
> With this in mind, it's wrong of you to criticize libreboot for a mistake
that it no longer makes.
*YOU JUST FIXED IT*
You claim we're making mistakes and yet you yourself are making the same
mistakes. I on the other hand don't agree that the mistakes we are making are
the same or even mistakes. The difference is one is targeted at people who
are technical, capable, understand, etc free software and aren't going to
revert to a proprietary OS because they don't understand that there are less
difficult choices if things don't work. I'd never try and sell Debian or
Fedora to someone who is already on a 100% free OS. However if someone is on
a proprietary OS I'm going to try and help them get onto something that is a
realistic more free option even if it is less than perfect. The majority of
people here came to Trisquel and free software from such operating systems.
Chances are they wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the fact they were
presented with a distribution that worked that they could first try before
taking the time and effort to move to something that was more free. And
again- none of us here are on 100% free computers. We're just on more free
systems than most people out there.
