Martin posted the following TROM quote. I have highlighted or
undelined some bits:
((((That which is considered important tends to persist and to become
more solid. Solidity and persistence - need for - are thus the basic
conviction phenomena in games. Things are made more solid and more
persistent to convince others of their existence. The mechanism is
entirely reversible: that which is persisting and solid is tended to be
regarded as important.
Any importance is relative to, and can be evaluated against, any other
importance. *There is no absolute importance.* Thus, _what the being
considers important is relative to the being and the games he is playing_.
Thus, any field of knowledge which postulates an absolute importance is
at variance with natural law. ( The search for deeper significance into
life or the mind is only the search for prior or greater importance. In
that all importance is relative to all other importance it is both a
fruitless and endless search. Various past researchers in this field
have claimed to have discovered basic importances of a more or less
absolute nature ( 'sex', 'survival', etc. ) and then proceeded to
develop a therapy based upon their discovery. We can now see clearly
why they failed. *The "button" is importance.* Having now found it
we can stop looking for it. ))))
Am I the only one to see a tad of a contradiction here in these two
bold portions?
The underlined portion is, in my opinion the key to it. The "game" the
being is playing is essentially the first creation he sought to make
known but which was invalidated and overwhelmed. All subsequent
actions have been attempts to get that original one admired or
accepted. This is the "Basic Goal" or "Rock" in Scio terms. It equates
to Survival and Rightness. Even though he may appear to have abadoned
that original creation/goal, the truth is that he never has. He is
still pursuing it even on the via of pursuig substitutes or whatever.
Any "Importance" he assigns to anything is evaluated to be so in terms
of this original creation. Devaluing that assignment in present time
would certainly lead to big key outs etc etc and gains for the guy --
I am not negatng any of the massive potential benefits that TROM
brings about - but he for sure will never get out of the game
completely untill that original postulate/creation is accepted and
admired by the PD terminals it was directed at. These terminals are,
of course, also creations/considerations of the guy himself so I am
not suggesting he needs to go hunting for those thetans. He _is_ them.
Leon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* "trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org" <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org>
*To:* trom@lists.newciv.org
*Sent:* Sunday, 13 November 2011 6:06 PM
*Subject:* Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 18
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 17 (jago...@tiscali.it
<mailto:jago...@tiscali.it>)
2. Re: Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 17 (Aarre Peltomaa)
3. reply to Paul (Paul Tipon)
4. Re: reply to Paul (Martin Foster)
5. Re: reply to Martin (Paul Tipon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:48:02 +0100
From: jago...@tiscali.it <mailto:jago...@tiscali.it>
To: trom@lists.newciv.org <mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 17
Message-ID: <0f9fb5df-5519-46f6-841a-3b9b0ca20...@tiscali.it
<mailto:0f9fb5df-5519-46f6-841a-3b9b0ca20...@tiscali.it>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
DelSp="yes"
Of course YES.Whatever we do inour , reflects in mass consciousness
as well.The more Trommers the bigger the effect!
So let's do our job.
good work,
alex.
Il giorno 12/nov/11, alle ore 13:00, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org
<mailto:trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> ha
scritto:
> Even if all TROM members got to level 5 completion by Dec.
> 21/'2012, do you
> think that that action alone would distimulate the planet enough to
> shift
> into a golden age?
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:53:50 -0500
From: Aarre Peltomaa <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com
<mailto:peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com>>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org
<mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 17
Message-ID:
<canrdadrnq7v3xzdnn0phrjs0j83mni4kzmvuxwu74ysvs15...@mail.gmail.com
<mailto:canrdadrnq7v3xzdnn0phrjs0j83mni4kzmvuxwu74ysvs15...@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks Alex from Aarre Nov. 12/'11
I guess it all benefits the total planet.
Your friend,
Aarre Peltomaa,
peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com <mailto:peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com>
(647) 202-7267
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:48 AM, <jago...@tiscali.it
<mailto:jago...@tiscali.it>> wrote:
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org
<mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>
> ************
>
> Of course YES.Whatever we do inour , reflects in mass consciousness as
> well.The more Trommers the bigger the effect!
> So let's do our job..
> good work,
> alex.
>
>
> Il giorno 12/nov/11, alle ore 13:00, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org
<mailto:trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> ha
> scritto:
>
> Even if all TROM members got to level 5 completion by Dec. 21/'2012,
do you
>
> think that that action alone would distimulate the planet enough to
shift
>
> into a golden age?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trom mailing list
> Trom@lists.newciv.org <mailto:Trom@lists.newciv.org>
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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>
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:32:25 -0800
From: Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com
<mailto:pti...@proftitleserv.com>>
To: leosw...@xtra.co.nz <mailto:leosw...@xtra.co.nz>
Cc: trom@lists.newciv.org <mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: [TROM1] reply to Paul
Message-ID: <4811d632-7e56-4d37-829c-e1bbf9c6b...@proftitleserv.com
<mailto:4811d632-7e56-4d37-829c-e1bbf9c6b...@proftitleserv.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Leo Swart
Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:57:49 -0800
>Well, yes and no to this, IMHO.
>By doing what is suggested by Dennis here is really to counter one
earlier postulate with a later one. So I don't think it is the best
>approach to this sort of thing. It would be better to expose the
original postulate and then recognize it for what it was.
That's what TimeBreaking is, "expose the original postulate and then
recognize it for what is was".
My take is that one is not counter postulating when one does TROM.
Counter postulating or taking one's own or someone else's postulates
as an overt or a motivator and then coming up with a new postulate
based on the overt/motivator assessment is countering or
paralleling. That is what everyone has been doing all along. It is
getting into a games condition and keeping it there forever.
What I see in using TROM is that one is evaluating a postulate on the
basis of its significance and usefulness and deciding whether or not
to continue using it in present time or discarding it. Let's take
the postulate to find and have the best cave of all caves. I hope we
have all gone beyond that (humor). So that postulate is no longer
being used and has been replaced by having a nice home to live in.
It was not countered. One has a new postulate which they are now
operating and acting with. The old postulate is just not being put
into action in present time anymore.
This is the beauty of TimeBreaking. One compares an old (then) scene
with a new scene and the necessity of continuing to employ the old
postulate for that old scene in present time is seen for the
irrationality that it is for 'now'. So it just isn't employed
anymore. What has happened is that the old postulate is now
relegated to memory and no longer held as a MUST in the mind just
because one sees a mountain or what they may perceive as a beautiful
cave women or whatever that stimulator to action is.
In other words, the postulate still remains ..... 'I remember fighting
over having the best cave' ... but it is no longer an action one
takes up for those caveman actions have been removed from the mind as
an involuntary reason to take specific action when one perceives
certain specific re-stimulators.
This is the reason one needs to be a CCH completion to do TROM. One
needs to be in PT, in command of things in PT and not the involuntary
effect of fighting battles from ages ago. Then one can pull up those
things that have involuntary command over one, TimeBreak them and
go .... 'Oh my God, I was doing that so that I would have dinosaur
soup for tonight'. Actually you may not get that kind of a re-action
for an old postulate. You may just get .... Ho Hum, yawn (no
involuntary reaction from whatever that was anymore, I ain't there no
more and probably never will be there again (useless old postulate)).
As a reference, the cycle is .... consideration-postulate-ARC. If
one never takes the postulate to ARC, they are not employing it and
putting it into action and it just sits there, wherever (just a
memory). ARC is also another description for something/anything in
the MEST Universe and therefore what the MEST Universe is comprised
of. That's one of the secrets to postulates, they can just sit there
and do nothing. I'm sure everyone here has more than once
experienced the ... how come that didn't vanish, I put a postulate
there, my postulates don't work ... ?????????
With TROM one is on the path to knowing how to make postulates work.
More so than Scn.
Paul
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:35:26 +0200
From: Martin Foster <msfos...@mweb.co.za <mailto:msfos...@mweb.co.za>>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org
<mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] reply to Paul
Message-ID: <4ebeca7e..2080...@mweb.co.za
<mailto:4ebeca7e.2080...@mweb.co.za>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Hi Leon,
What's keeping the mass in place is the degree of "importance"
attributed to that mass. What one needs to ascertain is not so much the
prior postulate but the degree of "importance" one attached to it.
The consideration that the underlying, past postulate must be addressed
will lead to the "long night of the soul" which is what Dennis suggests
Hubbard did in his Reminiscences of Ron.
TROM quote:
((((That which is considered important tends to persist and to become
more solid. Solidity and persistence - need for - are thus the basic
conviction phenomena in games. Things are made more solid and more
persistent to convince others of their existence. The mechanism is
entirely reversible: that which is persisting and solid is tended to be
regarded as important.
Any importance is relative to, and can be evaluated against, any other
importance. There is no absolute importance. Thus, what the being
considers important is relative to the being and the games he is playing.
Thus, any field of knowledge which postulates an absolute importance is
at variance with natural law. ( The search for deeper significance into
life or the mind is only the search for prior or greater importance. In
that all importance is relative to all other importance it is both a
fruitless and endless search. Various past researchers in this field
have claimed to have discovered basic importances of a more or less
absolute nature ( 'sex', 'survival', etc. ) and then proceeded to
develop a therapy based
upon their discovery. We can now see clearly why they failed. The
"button" is importance. Having now found it we can stop looking for
it. ))))
Martin
On 12/Nov/2011 05:57, Leo Swart wrote:
> Well, yes and no to this, IMHO.
>
> I'm sure Dennis is right in so far as the mass will destimulate to a
> great degree, but bear in mind that what is keeping such a mass in
> place is not merely the idea that one needs to regard it as being
> "trivial". The entire thrust of Hubbard's approach on this is that
> the mass is held in place by an underlying postulate which is very
> specific to the time and place of the incident and also to the goals
> of the person involved.
>
> By doing what is suggested by Dennis here is really to counter one
> earlier postulate with a later one. So I don't think it is the best
> approach to this sort of thing. It would be better to expose the
> original postulate and then recognise it for what it was.
>
>
> cheers
>
>
> Leon
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:40:56 -0800
> From: Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com
<mailto:pti...@proftitleserv.com>
> <mailto:pti...@proftitleserv.com <mailto:pti...@proftitleserv.com>>>
> Subject: [TROM1] I mentioned earlier how important Relative
> Importances are
> To: trom@lists.newciv.org <mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>
<mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org <mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>>
> Message-ID: <e045794f-10fd-4906-9588-e5ba1519f...@proftitleserv.com
<mailto:e045794f-10fd-4906-9588-e5ba1519f...@proftitleserv.com>
> <mailto:e045794f-10fd-4906-9588-e5ba1519f...@proftitleserv.com
<mailto:e045794f-10fd-4906-9588-e5ba1519f...@proftitleserv.com>>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Well, in prepping for doing Level 5 by reading and re-reading over
> and over again, I came across this truth by Dennis.
>
> "The entire secret of making any mental mass vanish is to re-evaluate
> its importance to present time realities to the point where it is
> considered so trivial that there is no longer any need to keep it in
> existence; at which moment the mass can be easily not-known and will
> promptly vanish. [On the other hand, ]While the mass is considered
> important, it will continue in existence and the being will continue
> to know it - even though trying desperately to not-know it.
>
> To try and vanish by means of force a mass while still holding the
> consideration that it is important is thus the height of stupidity
> and can only lead to frustration and failure.
>
> Thus we see that the re-evaluation of past importances is the only
> step required to achieve the vanishment of any mental mass. As a
> successful psychotherapy can be defined as a system that brings about
> the vanishment of unwanted mental conditions, we see that this data
> is vital to our goal.
>
> The ability to assign and un-assign importances, while native to the
> being, will be found to require some attention on the route out."
>
> For ease of reading I have interjected the phrase found in brackets,
> i.e. [...].
>
> Paul
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
>
> End of Trom Digest, Vol 88, Issue 14
> ************************************
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>
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:06:05 -0800
From: Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com
<mailto:pti...@proftitleserv.com>>
To: msfos...@mweb.co.za <mailto:msfos...@mweb.co.za>
Cc: trom@lists.newciv.org <mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] reply to Martin
Message-ID: <89843ba0-fe25-4716-a3ae-6be9a61ec...@proftitleserv.com
<mailto:89843ba0-fe25-4716-a3ae-6be9a61ec...@proftitleserv.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
From Dennis as in your email:
Various past researchers in this field have claimed to have
discovered basic importances of a more or less absolute nature
( 'sex', 'survival', etc. ) and then proceeded to develop a therapy
based upon their discovery. We can now see clearly why they failed.
The "button" is importance. Having now found it we can stop looking
for it.
Excellent choice. Your whole quote from Dennis is perfect.
For everyone's reference, here is your post: http://www.mail-
archive.com/trom@lists.newciv.org
<mailto:trom@lists.newciv.org>/msg01780.html
Paul
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