************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************WHELL YOU ARE THE CREATOR THE UNIVERSE IS AS YOU CREATE IT , FOR YOU, I CHOSE NOT KNOW OR AS IS THE BASIC LOW, AND FOR ME IS VERY OK TO STAY IN IT BUT I CAN LEVE IT ANY TIME I WHANT SO IS LIKE YOU SAY BE IN AND OUT IS THE BEST! OVERWEL IS NOT POSSIBLE ANY MOR! UNLESS YOU POSTULATE IT BUT ANY WAY YOU CAN EASELY TO UNDO THAT! SO JUS BE AND NOT BE AS YOU LIKE!
MUCH LOVE! Quoting trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org:
Send Trom mailing list submissions to trom@lists.newciv.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org You can reach the person managing the list at trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..." Today's Topics: 1. The basic law that governs this universe (Spe) 2. Re: Trom Digest, Vol 103, Issue 12 (Pete Mclaughlin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 23:19:40 -0800 From: Spe <slimspersonalem...@gmail.com> To: Tromlist <trom@lists.newciv.org> Subject: [TROM1] The basic law that governs this universe Message-ID: <8a9f06d1-4435-422c-a048-848370d38...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Many don't realize the true nature and laws of this universe. For example.There is no past nor future outside of this universe. These things are within this universe. Other universes too but not necessarily .The past is the distance in one direction and the future is what extends in the other direction.A stick has a past and future. So does a grain of salt. It's simply the duration in which it exists.I you leave this universe , create a thought and then return to this universe there will be no recollection of it . There are recollections we may have of other universes similar to this one but you'll need to go there ( put your attention there ) so to speak to recall them.This universe is made of two things . not three. A past and a future. The present is actually an illusion . As soon as a thing is created , it slips into the past and even extends into the future depending on its creation. The present is what's in-between but it actually is just an illusion . As soon as it's known, it becomes a thing of the past.We can simultainiously consider ourself to be in and out of this universe but it's a little confusing. There is no time outside of this universe. Time is a consideration while operating within it or another universe similar to this one.We can know anything that has happened or will happen in this universe by operating in and outside of this universe simultainiously.If you leave this universe and know the future while outside of it you will not have a recollection when you return . The past only exists within this universe , not outside of it unless you enter another universe similar to this one .There's nothing, no universal laws between universes. No past, no duality , no up no down , no know, no not know, etc . These are all things that exist while operating within this universe. There are no basic laws between universes unless you create them but even then , once you do, that consideration becomes a universe in it's own right of which you can simply walk away from forever.So we can know the future while outside this universe but have no recollection when we return . Recollection is simply knowing the past of this universe. knowing the future is not unlike knowing the past . You just direct your attention in the other direction while being in and out of this universe simultainioulsy. There's certainly no law against that and once you fully understand that " loop hole " it ipso facto eliminates the basic law that governs this universe. You just create your way around it and the basic law vanishes.it's gone by default in a way . Just as time breaking does. You just create your way out. No harm , no foul, no non like goal.This universe is a life form as is this planet in the universe and our bodies on this planet and the microscopic life on our bodies and so on. A life form need not be animated either. It can be as solid as a diamond.The one thing all life forms in this universe share is the law of duality. The laws of relativity are based on the laws of this universe . The universe is a creation. It's already been created as are the creations yet to come . The best you'll ever do is leave it. The second best is to leave it and remain in it simultaneously. One foot in and the other foot out. The universe will always be the same as its as finite as a grain of sand.If you snap the universe in half you still have the laws it was created with intact . But youll just have two of them separated by nothingness.------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 09:45:12 -0800 From: Pete Mclaughlin <pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 103, Issue 12 Message-ID: <8c81fcc0-107e-421d-bdd5-6b336f5eb...@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well done Alberto Sincerely Pete On Feb 12, 2013, at 2:53 AM, albertosantosfra...@sapo.pt wrote:************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************ Hello to every tromers!Today i have finished Trom my mind is solved I have achieved the voluntary game condition! Is a very natural state! Very simple! For what I understand is not possible to go in full no game condition because you have to drop the body! I chose not do that at this time I want to participate in clearing the planet as a field Reiki master and have the planet to be clear for every man and human! The paradise on earth is possible now I know! I can go in no game condition in any aspect of my life, but I chose not to do that! The best is let others to play games as they like and help them to go free of compulsion to play, if I go in full no game I go out of the multiversity as a spiritual game player, or joy in to prime creator! I can joy in any moment I want but not for full! I chose to do the job that is there to be done!So may this inspire your work in Trom!Do very much RI (all and every difficulty on Trom comes from lack of RI ON Be, do, have, and applying every type of postulates of the to Know chart positive and negative! Do also much RI By touch things and put postulates together! This is my experience did the job for me. I did about 500H of Trom! and 200 of Reiki self therapy, and 100 of meditation, I was class IV auditor and level III pc! My life falls all apart during the process! Everything fully, and I myself as a being, got on full total failure, on the ton scale for several times! I stand up pick up my head and go to battle again! I was in the hospital for 1 time, go crazy other one, my mind plaid every game against me at the end is my best friend! For me big help was Reiki training, and at the very end meditation on who am I?(Bock keys to ultimate freedom!)So here it is it can be done but only for the ones of real courage and good of hard and will! You are here to make a difference in the small things life is very simple like this change your mind and you see the simple of life and stop to try to make bad influence on it!So life just flow in harmony! So you are! Best to every one! If anyone needs help please ask! I do my best! All my love to all of you! To God! Quoting trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org:Send Trom mailing list submissions to trom@lists.newciv.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org You can reach the person managing the list at trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kindle version of Manual plus additions (Aarre Peltomaa) 2. Re: Kindle version of Manual plus additions (Aarre Peltomaa) 3. Re: Responsibility by Leonard Dunn. to Martin (Aarre Peltomaa) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:26:24 -0500 From: Aarre Peltomaa <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions Message-ID: <canrdadqras1jiwcdbutbrl-iz4hnomw2evmxnrw42nibank...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Paul, AarreOn Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com>wrote:************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************ Hi Glen, Very well put. I couldn't agree more. Paul, Level 5 in progress On Feb 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:Even if one assumes that there was one absolutely right way to heal or reach enlightenment. And that Dennis had worked this out perfectly, in a way that would work the same way for every human being. And that he expressed his ideas in the clearest, most easily understandable way. And that the editors did the best possible job of presenting this material. (All of which are highly doubtful assumptions in any subject or written document.) You will always be left with the fact that every human being will always interpret and understand the material in a slightly different way. What's more, one cannot own the material without developing one's unique understanding of it, an understanding that either works for them ordoesn't. No truly literal duplication of anything exists and if it did, itwould be a mental straightjacket (IMHO). Don't believe me? Look at how many thousands if not millions of interpretations there are of any religious scripture like the Bible or the Buddhist doctrines. Everything evolves. And, just like every Christian today picks and chooses bits of the Bible that support their personal ideas and rejects the rest, TROM will also have to evolve with some flexibility or wither.' I thought about this exactly the same way over a year ago, and alsoobserved that; I still think that the original document should be as close to original source as possible, and then simpler (average guy) editions could exist also, as long as their authorship/source is statedbluntly in the beginning. Then individuals could slightly adjust the dataas you stated in their application. This slight alteration insures theperpetuation of the work; According to LRH, to persist, there must be aslight alteration. A total duplication (AS - ISness) would theoretically cause a vanishment. The original document should be pristine however, so that wanderers could always come back to 'more' puritanical application when needed and wanted. Perhaps, allowing a slight alteration in application to fit more complementarily with each individual's postulate set quirks would allow the techniques to persist through time for a long, long, time.' Aarre Peltomaa p.s. does this sound correct at all ?So, it's worth preserving Dennis's original intent. But that may not be the best presentation to reach and help the most people. Many people, especially those who haven't studied Scientology (and fewer people do all the time) would find the TROM materials that currently exist to be gobbledygook. The person who can find a way to express them in a way thatis clear and appealing to the average person will take this material a bigstep forward. (And maybe the person who subjects them to rigorous double-blind testingto see how well they actually work for most people will perform the biggestservice of all.)______________________________**_________________ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom<http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom>-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/13376927/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:33:09 -0500 From: Aarre Peltomaa <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions Message-ID: <CANrDadQ2-Fwjjvocy58BT17upzHbj=erxuke0owhyzuyhwf...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This should have more correctly been sent to Glen, rather than Paul, Thanks, AarreOn Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Aarre Peltomaa <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com>wrote:Hi Paul, AarreOn Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com>wrote:************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************ Hi Glen, Very well put. I couldn't agree more. Paul, Level 5 in progress On Feb 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote:Even if one assumes that there was one absolutely right way to heal orreach enlightenment. And that Dennis had worked this out perfectly, in away that would work the same way for every human being. And that he expressed his ideas in the clearest, most easily understandable way. And that the editors did the best possible job of presenting this material. (All of which are highly doubtful assumptions in any subject or written document.) You will always be left with the fact that every human being will always interpret and understand the material in a slightly different way. What's more, one cannot own the material without developing one's unique understanding of it, an understanding that either works for them ordoesn't. No truly literal duplication of anything exists and if it did, itwould be a mental straightjacket (IMHO). Don't believe me? Look at how many thousands if not millions of interpretations there are of any religious scripture like the Bible or the Buddhist doctrines. Everything evolves. And, just like every Christian today picks and chooses bits of the Bible that support their personal ideas and rejects the rest, TROM will also have to evolve with some flexibility or wither.' I thought about this exactly the same way over a year ago, and alsoobserved that; I still think that the original document should be as close to original source as possible, and then simpler (average guy) editions could exist also, as long as their authorship/source is statedbluntly in the beginning. Then individuals could slightly adjust the dataas you stated in their application. This slight alteration insures theperpetuation of the work; According to LRH, to persist, there must be a slight alteration. A total duplication (AS - ISness) would theoretically cause a vanishment. The original document should be pristine however, sothat wanderers could always come back to 'more' puritanical application when needed and wanted. Perhaps, allowing a slight alteration in application to fit more complementarily with each individual's postulateset quirks would allow the techniques to persist through time for a long,long, time.' Aarre Peltomaa p.s. does this sound correct at all ?So, it's worth preserving Dennis's original intent. But that may not be the best presentation to reach and help the most people. Many people,especially those who haven't studied Scientology (and fewer people do allthe time) would find the TROM materials that currently exist to begobbledygook. The person who can find a way to express them in a way that is clear and appealing to the average person will take this material a bigstep forward. (And maybe the person who subjects them to rigorous double-blind testingto see how well they actually work for most people will perform the biggestservice of all.)______________________________**_________________ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom<http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom>-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/f47064f5/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:12:48 -0500 From: Aarre Peltomaa <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Responsibility by Leonard Dunn. to Martin Message-ID: <canrdadr_z53ftsrzxcofpiqwyqmuvkidq3kns0nzlls4kwa...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Paul, The highlighted in violet section really shook the earth under my feet; how true that is. It allows one to decide to act or to not act also. This will work well of course to the degree that one is uptone/ethical. Thanks much, AarreOn Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com> wrote:************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************ Give Unto Caesar What is Caesar's and Unto God What is God's On Feb 4, 2013, at 5:33 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote: Intentional harm By way of contrast, if ones sets out with the intention of harming another then the backlash from this action will be in accordance with the Law of Cause and Effect, That Which One Sows, One Reaps. The actual truth is that one cannot harm another unless he has created the idea that he can be harmed. This of course, is his responsibility. It follows logically that one cannot be harmed unless one seeks to be so for the sake of experience which may be a non-survival way of balancing up one's past overts. That one is solely and totally responsible for everything that happens in one's life by virtue of one having created it, for whatever reason, is perhaps the most difficult aspect of responsibility to understand, accept and put into practice in one's life. It was this aspect that brought about my own present life case completion. The following is my take on making someone else guilty of an overt. This action may have been like Martin states above, just a decision or making another guilty and wrong or it could have been both at different instances but they are both the same games condition of making another wrong, the blame game. This is a very critical concept and a juncture in the change of one's existence, well beyond any one life time just as Martin is saying. Basic is the fact that the body can be harmed but not the spirit, the soul, the Thetan. The basic true self, the spirit cannot be harmed and it is only taken upon one's self as such through using the body or whatever beingnessor identity. If the Thetan is to be harmed it is because the spirit/Thetanpostulates that it is so about himself as a spirit. A Thetan can only be trapped and harmed if he considers he is trapped and harmed and he will play the darndest games to prove to others and himself that it is so. Stupidity also plays a big part. It all started when the first overt was made. Ron mentions the very 1st and 2nd overt in the State of Man lectures. At the level of Theta and strictly in the realm of the Theta universe, the first overt, if there truly ever was such a thing, to harm another, was when a Thetan made another Thetan guilty of an overt act. The specific action here was one Thetan blaming another for harming him. The stupidity comes into the picture when the accused Thetan considers he has harmed another as the other Thetan does a good job of pretending and demonstrating that he has been harmed by the guilty Thetan. Not to difficult a performance for a Thetan even without a body, a beingness. As this game went around, it probably got better and better and even the accusing Thetan began to believe, there just might be a way to harm a Thetan without his agreement. After all, he had to continue to make the guilty party guilty, the ol' I'm right and you're wrong game. Just more stupidity and game playing. Whoknows, possibly the accusing Thetan had a body or some identity at the timeto really demonstrate being harmed. With this 1st overt, that of making another guilty of an overt act, one can now see how powerful and deadly this overt can be. By making the most powerful guilty and showing that the MOST powerful could be harmed, the seed was planted that could and would make the most powerful of all in all universes succumb to being trapped and rendered down to nothing more than an inconsequential grain of sand on a lonely uninhabited beach somewhere, anywhere in a far off forgotten corner of the physical universe. For one to now look back at all of this, one can easily see that the game of blame is this same insidious disabling,injuring and killing agent of oneself and others who were once totally immune to any and all harm of any nature. The beginning of the downfall of Theta and Thetans. If you have gotten this far, I hope you can see that Level 4 is the key that opens the door to walking out of the trap and Level 5 is the walking out. What must be accomplished on Level 4 is 'Freedom from Overwhelm'. Without this Level 5 is only of minor benefit for you are not yet free from overwhelm. I also want to point out that doing Level 4 to where onecan no longer see any more charge to run off by TimeBreaking is not a pointof completion without having achieved 'Freedom from Overwhelm'. Without this 'Freedom', there still remains the seed to succumb. Once this is done, my experience has been a vast expansion of understanding and knowledge. Being difficult to accept, it is not all that surprising. Consequently many will raise every possible arguments against its being so. The truth itself is quite simple but, as Dennis Stephens said to me on his last tape before relinquishing his body 'truths are always simple, complexities are just playing games'. This leads to therather startling concept that there are really no such things as accidents.All occurs within the workings of the Laws of Life which I wrote about in IVy No 18, already cited. Feeling guilty LRH said that to accept responsibility for anything, one had only to admit openly that he had done that which was created. Once this was done the incident disappears by virtue of being as-ised. I don't know if this is necessarily true. It will occur when responsibility has really been fully taken but just saying so may not be enough in all cases. Shared responsibilities There are many situations where shared responsibilities occur and I have mentioned above a very simple example of this but the scale can be very much larger in its scope and in the number of people involved. Consider the complexities of responsibilities in regard to a war, for example or the destruction of the earth's atmosphere by increasing pollution. The complexity of this means that it is a game with no simple solutions to it so that each one involved, voluntarily or involuntarily, must assess his own degree of responsibility in regard to it. To simplifythe solution a little in regard to one's own measure of responsibility, one must look at one's own intentions and actions or inactions in regard to thesituation and act or not act accordingly. Possible lines of action Here is the outline of a tool for counselling or for running TROM. The former will have the wording 'Has another forced upon you ...?' The latter 'Is there a game where you were overwhelmed with ...?' Questions could be : 1. Accept a responsibility that you did not desire. 2. Prevent you from accepting a responsibility that you desire. 3. Accept as yours, a responsibility that wasn't yours. 4. Be irresponsible. 5. Feel guilty. Each question to be run on all four flows in order to cover every aspect of it. This I used with the client mentioned at the beginning of this article but found that the use of the four flows on 1 was all that was needed to complete the case by reason of the cognition which then occurred. LaterI told her that in reality this conclusion was not an end but the beginningof ever increasing knowledge, understanding and opportunities . She has already found this happening. The Editor, Antony Phillips (internet address: a...@jacome.ping.dk), does have an Internet line for TROM and allied topics where opinionsand experiences can be shared. He will readily give you details of it. If,like myself, you are not into having the necessary computer you can always get in touch with me via himself or, for matters regarding TROM, to JudithMethven who has had considerable experience with TROM. I am moderately wellversed in the theory but have had no practical experience since my case completion occurred on a totally different route, which took very much longer. The price to be paid When one lives to the best of one's ability and having regard for the Laws of Life, then, as I have mentioned, new knowledge just flows in and understanding increases. For one at this level, the price is one that he is quite happy to pay. This price has been expressed in the injunction,'as you have freely received, so freely give'. I have told my clients that there is no need for my personal recompense but just pass on to others thatwhich you have learnt and tell them to do the same. It works! LRH himselfsaid that ideally scientology should be given freely but then he went on tofind every reason why it couldn't be. That, perhaps, was the beginning of the failure of the C. of S. The way ahead Whilst I was thinking about the writing of this article it occurred to me that those who are closely tied up with any 'ism, 'ology, or group association may find it more difficult to reach a present life time case completion. This is because too close an association with such organizations tends to impose limitations of thought and actions. In thecourse of time they all are liable to deteriorate to the level of 'the onlyway'. Such an association may indeed be very valuable during one's lowerlevels in one's development but when they become restrictive, it is time toleave them. I went from christian to spiritualist to scientologist to theunnamed freedom that I now enjoy. This freedom I have found to be essentialfor me as I can not be restricted by others' set beliefs. Once one puts a label on any sort of activity, it can tend to cause it to become limiting, especially if it involves creating an organization. Since the separation of the many old time scientologists from the C of S many have found or created new forms of therapy and counseling. To me it is axiomatic that no one way will be right for everyone but that each of them will meet the needs of those who are able to gain from what it offers. This growth andexpansion is especially true of the USA as a glimpse through the adverts inThe Free Spirit will show. The only thing here that is not to my taste is that some of them still offer their knowledge and services only to those who can afford high prices. I feel that this in itself is highly likely in the course of time to cause the founders to lose their games. I agree with this assessment too. In addition, I would suggest that there may be concepts and truths here and there which are true and worth while and one should be able to note which those are and those which are not worth while. There is the situation where one may accept a dogma or a belief as a truth in the beginning and not be able to note the dogma or faith until one has progressed beyond the need or the understanding of either. That would only be possible as one continues to progress in knowledge and understanding to higher and higher levels of truth. With that I must say that one must continue incessantly with one's experience and one's actions to understand those experiences. Need I say this then tends to be an un-ending progression. This then also supports yourconsideration of 'isms', 'ologies' and groups getting to a point where theythen become restrictive and limiting. Most, typically purport to be 'the' answer and quite often say they are 'the only true answer'. All thatreally does is say that there is a top, a limit to what exists and what canexist, past, present and future. Obviously a very limiting viewpoint and not the truth. Remember the effect that this eventually had on LRH. Others have offered their new-found discoveries for no more than, or just a little over, the cost of reproducing them. My personal knowledge of them has been Geoffrey Filbert with his Excalibur Revisited, Dennis Stephens with TROM and Flemming Funch with his two volumes of essays and his latestwork Transformational Dialogues. There are undoubtedly others but I have nofirst hand knowledge of them. It does seem to me that these are the ones who are on the right and most survival path. A further warning is that one shouldn't make or imply false claims or unattainable results. In the current edition of The Auditor at the time of writing there is a banner headline in red: "Make it to full OT:- do the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course at Ron's home". This implies that doing so will make one full OT as defined by LRH. I have never heard of anyone achieving that as yet and I am sure that we would have, had itoccurred. Irene Mumford (Mitchell) claimed that Dianasis would do this butjust before she left her body she said that she didn't think this could be attained while still in a physical body. Let me end by saying quite briefly that if one does not pass on freely that which one has received, then the source and channel of that knowledge is very likely to dry up. On the other hand, when one passes on one's knowledge and experiences freely there is a never ending stream of new concepts and the understanding of life that accompanies this. This is theopen channel to Spirit, Intuition or whatever you chose to call it but onceyou've experienced, you can never doubt its reality and value. Very true. Especially if one has a new understanding only common to himself then that understanding and its knowledge will come to an end andnot go any further, it having been passed nowhere and it will not propagateany further through time and space nor through the non-physical universe. It has been a while since you last posted here on TROM. I find your postsenjoyable, worthwhile and thought provoking/stimulating. Where else do youpost? Paul, Level 5 in progress _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/5276de05/attachment.html>------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom End of Trom Digest, Vol 103, Issue 12 *************************************_______________________________________________ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom End of Trom Digest, Vol 103, Issue 21 *************************************
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