************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************ Hello Alberto
Thanks for the information and congratulations! Your success inspires me to persist! You had strong reactions while doing Trom, so it seems you did everything right :-) My best wishes Roberto -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: albertosantosfra...@sapo.pt [mailto:albertosantosfra...@sapo.pt] Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Februar 2013 11:54 An: trom@lists.newciv.org Betreff: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 103, Issue 12 Hello to every tromers! Today i have finished Trom my mind is solved I have achieved the voluntary game condition! Is a very natural state! Very simple! For what I understand is not possible to go in full no game condition because you have to drop the body! I chose not do that at this time I want to participate in clearing the planet as a field Reiki master and have the planet to be clear for every man and human! The paradise on earth is possible now I know! I can go in no game condition in any aspect of my life, but I chose not to do that! The best is let others to play games as they like and help them to go free of compulsion to play, if I go in full no game I go out of the multiversity as a spiritual game player, or joy in to prime creator! I can joy in any moment I want but not for full! I chose to do the job that is there to be done! So may this inspire your work in Trom! Do very much RI (all and every difficulty on Trom comes from lack of RI ON Be, do, have, and applying every type of postulates of the to Know chart positive and negative! Do also much RI By touch things and put postulates together! This is my experience did the job for me. I did about 500H of Trom! and 200 of Reiki self therapy, and 100 of meditation, I was class IV auditor and level III pc! My life falls all apart during the process! Everything fully, and I myself as a being, got on full total failure, on the ton scale for several times! I stand up pick up my head and go to battle again! I was in the hospital for 1 time, go crazy other one, my mind plaid every game against me at the end is my best friend! For me big help was Reiki training, and at the very end meditation on who am I? (Bock keys to ultimate freedom!) So here it is it can be done but only for the ones of real courage and good of hard and will! You are here to make a difference in the small things life is very simple like this change your mind and you see the simple of life and stop to try to make bad influence on it! So life just flow in harmony! So you are! Best to every one! If anyone needs help please ask! I do my best! All my love to all of you! To God! Quoting trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org: > Send Trom mailing list submissions to > trom@lists.newciv.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Kindle version of Manual plus additions (Aarre Peltomaa) > 2. Re: Kindle version of Manual plus additions (Aarre Peltomaa) > 3. Re: Responsibility by Leonard Dunn. to Martin (Aarre Peltomaa) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:26:24 -0500 > From: Aarre Peltomaa <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com> > To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions > Message-ID: > <canrdadqras1jiwcdbutbrl-iz4hnomw2evmxnrw42nibank...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Paul, > Aarre > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com>wrote: > >> ************* >> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >> ************ >> Hi Glen, >> >> Very well put. I couldn't agree more. >> >> Paul, Level 5 in progress >> >> On Feb 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote: >> >>> >>> Even if one assumes that there was one absolutely right way to heal or >>> reach enlightenment. And that Dennis had worked this out perfectly, in a >>> way that would work the same way for every human being. And that he >>> expressed his ideas in the clearest, most easily >>> understandable way. And that the editors did the best possible job of >>> presenting this material. >>> >>> (All of which are highly doubtful assumptions in any subject or written >>> document.) >>> >>> You will always be left with the fact that every human being will always >>> interpret and understand the material in a slightly different way. >>> What's more, one cannot own the material without developing one's unique >>> understanding of it, an understanding that either works for them or >>> doesn't. No truly literal duplication of anything exists and if it did, it >>> would be a mental straightjacket (IMHO). >>> >>> Don't believe me? Look at how many thousands if not millions of >>> interpretations there are of any religious scripture like the Bible or >>> the Buddhist doctrines. Everything evolves. And, just like every >>> Christian today picks and chooses bits of the Bible that support their >>> personal ideas and rejects the rest, TROM will also have to evolve with >>> some flexibility or wither. >> >> > >> ' I thought about this exactly the same way over a year ago, and also >>> observed that; I still think that the original document should be as >>> close to original source as possible, and then simpler (average guy) >>> editions could exist also, as long as their authorship/source is stated >>> bluntly in the beginning. Then individuals could slightly adjust the data >>> as you stated in their application. This slight alteration insures the >>> perpetuation of the work; According to LRH, to persist, there must be a >>> slight alteration. A total duplication (AS - ISness) would theoretically >>> cause a vanishment. The original document should be pristine however, so >>> that wanderers could always come back to 'more' puritanical application >>> when needed and wanted. Perhaps, allowing a slight alteration in >>> application to fit more complementarily with each individual's postulate >>> set quirks would allow the techniques to persist through time for a long, >>> long, time.' Aarre Peltomaa >>> p.s. does this sound correct at all ? >> >> > >> >> >> >>> So, it's worth preserving Dennis's original intent. But that may not be >>> the best presentation to reach and help the most people. Many people, >>> especially those who haven't studied Scientology (and fewer people do all >>> the time) would find the TROM materials that currently exist to be >>> gobbledygook. The person who can find a way to express them in a way that >>> is clear and appealing to the average person will take this material a big >>> step forward. >>> >>> (And maybe the person who subjects them to rigorous double-blind testing >>> to see how well they actually work for most people will perform the biggest >>> service of all.) >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> Trom mailing list >> Trom@lists.newciv.org >> http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom<http://lists.newciv.org/mail man/listinfo/trom> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/13376927/attach ment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:33:09 -0500 > From: Aarre Peltomaa <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com> > To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions > Message-ID: > <CANrDadQ2-Fwjjvocy58BT17upzHbj=erxuke0owhyzuyhwf...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > This should have more correctly been sent to Glen, rather than Paul, > Thanks, Aarre > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Aarre Peltomaa > <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> Aarre >> >> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com>wrote: >> >>> ************* >>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> ************ >>> Hi Glen, >>> >>> Very well put. I couldn't agree more. >>> >>> Paul, Level 5 in progress >>> >>> On Feb 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Even if one assumes that there was one absolutely right way to heal or >>>> reach enlightenment. And that Dennis had worked this out perfectly, in a >>>> way that would work the same way for every human being. And that he >>>> expressed his ideas in the clearest, most easily >>>> understandable way. And that the editors did the best possible job of >>>> presenting this material. >>>> >>>> (All of which are highly doubtful assumptions in any subject or written >>>> document.) >>>> >>>> You will always be left with the fact that every human being will always >>>> interpret and understand the material in a slightly different way. >>>> What's more, one cannot own the material without developing one's unique >>>> understanding of it, an understanding that either works for them or >>>> doesn't. No truly literal duplication of anything exists and if it did, it >>>> would be a mental straightjacket (IMHO). >>>> >>>> Don't believe me? Look at how many thousands if not millions of >>>> interpretations there are of any religious scripture like the Bible or >>>> the Buddhist doctrines. Everything evolves. And, just like every >>>> Christian today picks and chooses bits of the Bible that support their >>>> personal ideas and rejects the rest, TROM will also have to evolve with >>>> some flexibility or wither. >>> >>> >> >>> ' I thought about this exactly the same way over a year ago, and also >>>> observed that; I still think that the original document should be as >>>> close to original source as possible, and then simpler (average guy) >>>> editions could exist also, as long as their authorship/source is stated >>>> bluntly in the beginning. Then individuals could slightly >>>> adjust the data >>>> as you stated in their application. This slight alteration insures the >>>> perpetuation of the work; According to LRH, to persist, there must be a >>>> slight alteration. A total duplication (AS - ISness) would theoretically >>>> cause a vanishment. The original document should be pristine however, so >>>> that wanderers could always come back to 'more' puritanical application >>>> when needed and wanted. Perhaps, allowing a slight alteration in >>>> application to fit more complementarily with each individual's postulate >>>> set quirks would allow the techniques to persist through time for a long, >>>> long, time.' Aarre Peltomaa >>>> p.s. does this sound correct at all ? >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>> So, it's worth preserving Dennis's original intent. But that may not be >>>> the best presentation to reach and help the most people. Many people, >>>> especially those who haven't studied Scientology (and fewer people do all >>>> the time) would find the TROM materials that currently exist to be >>>> gobbledygook. The person who can find a way to express them in a way that >>>> is clear and appealing to the average person will take this material a big >>>> step forward. >>>> >>>> (And maybe the person who subjects them to rigorous double-blind testing >>>> to see how well they actually work for most people will perform >>>> the biggest >>>> service of all.) >>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> Trom mailing list >>> Trom@lists.newciv.org >>> http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom<http://lists.newciv.org/mail man/listinfo/trom> >>> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/f47064f5/attach ment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:12:48 -0500 > From: Aarre Peltomaa <peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com> > To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] Responsibility by Leonard Dunn. to Martin > Message-ID: > <canrdadr_z53ftsrzxcofpiqwyqmuvkidq3kns0nzlls4kwa...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Paul, > The highlighted in violet section really shook the earth under my feet; > how true that is. It allows one to decide to act or to not act also. This > will work well of course to the degree that one is uptone/ethical. > Thanks much, > Aarre > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com> wrote: > >> ************* >> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >> ************ >> >> Give Unto Caesar What is Caesar's and Unto God What is God's >> >> On Feb 4, 2013, at 5:33 AM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote: >> >> Intentional harm >> >> >> By way of contrast, if ones sets out with the intention of harming >> another then the backlash from this action will be in accordance with the >> Law of Cause and Effect, That Which One Sows, One Reaps. The actual truth >> is that one cannot harm another unless he has created the idea that he can >> be harmed. This of course, is his responsibility. It follows logically >> that one cannot be harmed unless one seeks to be so for the sake of >> experience which may be a non-survival way of balancing up one's past >> overts. That one is solely and totally responsible for everything that >> happens in one's life by virtue of one having created it, for whatever >> reason, is perhaps the most >> difficult aspect of responsibility to understand, accept and put >> into practice in one's life. It was this aspect that brought about my own >> present life case completion. >> >> >> The following is my take on making someone else guilty of an overt. This >> action may have been like Martin states above, just a decision or making >> another guilty and wrong or it could have been both at different instances >> but they are both the same games condition of making another wrong, the >> blame game. >> >> This is a very critical concept and a juncture in the change of one's >> existence, well beyond any one life time just as Martin is saying. Basic >> is the fact that the body can be harmed but not the spirit, the soul, the >> Thetan. The basic true self, the spirit cannot be harmed and it is only >> taken upon one's self as such through using the body or whatever beingness >> or identity. If the Thetan is to be harmed it is because the spirit/Thetan >> postulates that it is so about himself as a spirit. A Thetan can only be >> trapped and harmed if he considers he is trapped and harmed and he will >> play the darndest games to prove to others and himself that it is so. >> Stupidity also plays a big part. >> >> It all started when the first overt was made. Ron mentions the very 1st >> and 2nd overt in the State of Man lectures. At the level of Theta and >> strictly in the realm of the Theta universe, the first overt, if there >> truly ever was such a thing, to harm another, was when a Thetan made >> another Thetan guilty of an overt act. The specific action here was one >> Thetan blaming another for harming him. The stupidity comes into the >> picture when the accused Thetan considers he has harmed another as the >> other Thetan does a good job of pretending and demonstrating that he has >> been harmed by the guilty Thetan. Not to difficult a performance for a >> Thetan even without a body, a beingness. As this game went around, it >> probably got better and better and even the accusing Thetan began to >> believe, there just might be a way to harm a Thetan without his agreement. >> After all, he had to continue to make the guilty party guilty, the ol' I'm >> right and you're wrong game. Just more stupidity and game playing. Who >> knows, possibly the accusing Thetan had a body or some identity at the time >> to really demonstrate being harmed. >> >> With this 1st overt, that of making another guilty of an overt act, one >> can now see how powerful and deadly this overt can be. By making the most >> powerful guilty and showing that the MOST powerful could be harmed, the >> seed was planted that could and would make the most powerful of all in all >> universes succumb to being trapped and rendered down to nothing more than >> an inconsequential grain of sand on a lonely uninhabited beach somewhere, >> anywhere in a far off forgotten corner of the physical universe. >> >> For one to now look back at all of this, one can easily see that the game >> of blame is this same insidious disabling,injuring and killing agent of >> oneself and others who were once totally immune to any and all harm of any >> nature. The beginning of the downfall of Theta and Thetans. >> >> If you have gotten this far, I hope you can see that Level 4 is the key >> that opens the door to walking out of the trap and Level 5 is the walking >> out. What must be accomplished on Level 4 is 'Freedom from Overwhelm'. >> Without this Level 5 is only of minor benefit for you are not yet free >> from overwhelm. I also want to point out that doing Level 4 to where one >> can no longer see any more charge to run off by TimeBreaking is not a point >> of completion without having achieved 'Freedom from Overwhelm'. Without >> this 'Freedom', there still remains the seed to succumb. >> >> Once this is done, my experience has been a vast expansion of >> understanding and knowledge. Being difficult to accept, it is not all that >> surprising. Consequently many will raise every possible arguments against >> its being so. The truth itself is quite simple but, as Dennis Stephens >> said to me on his last tape before relinquishing his body 'truths are >> always simple, complexities are just playing games'. This leads to the >> rather startling concept that there are really no such things as accidents. >> All occurs within the workings of the Laws of Life which I wrote about in >> IVy No 18, already cited. >> >> >> Feeling guilty >> LRH said that to accept responsibility for anything, one had only to >> admit openly that he had done that which was created. Once this was done >> the incident disappears by virtue of being as-ised. I don't know if this >> is necessarily true. It will occur when responsibility has really been >> fully taken but just saying so may not be enough in all cases. >> >> >> Shared responsibilities >> There are many situations where shared responsibilities occur and I >> have mentioned above a very simple example of this but the scale can be >> very much larger in its scope and in the number of people involved. >> Consider the complexities of responsibilities in regard to a war, for >> example or the destruction of the earth's atmosphere by increasing >> pollution. The complexity of this means that it is a game with no simple >> solutions to it so that each one involved, voluntarily or involuntarily, >> must assess his own degree of responsibility in regard to it. To simplify >> the solution a little in regard to one's own measure of responsibility, one >> must look at one's own intentions and actions or inactions in regard to the >> situation and act or not act accordingly. >> >> >> Possible lines of action >> Here is the outline of a tool for counselling or for running TROM. >> The former will have the wording 'Has another forced upon you ...?' The >> latter 'Is there a game where you were overwhelmed with ...?' >> >> >> Questions could be : >> 1. Accept a responsibility that you did not desire. >> 2. Prevent you from accepting a responsibility that you desire. >> 3. Accept as yours, a responsibility that wasn't yours. >> 4. Be irresponsible. >> 5. Feel guilty. >> >> >> Each question to be run on all four flows in order to cover every aspect >> of it. >> >> >> This I used with the client mentioned at the beginning of this article >> but found that the use of the four flows on 1 was all that was needed >> to complete the case by reason of the cognition which then occurred. Later >> I told her that in reality this conclusion was not an end but the beginning >> of ever increasing knowledge, understanding and opportunities . She has >> already found this happening. >> >> >> The Editor, Antony Phillips (internet address: a...@jacome.ping.dk), >> does have an Internet line for TROM and allied topics where opinions >> and experiences can be shared. He will readily give you details of it. If, >> like myself, you are not into having the necessary computer you can always >> get in touch with me via himself or, for matters regarding TROM, to Judith >> Methven who has had considerable experience with TROM. I am moderately well >> versed in the theory but have had no practical experience since my case >> completion occurred on a totally different route, which took very much >> longer. >> >> >> The price to be paid >> >> >> When one lives to the best of one's ability and having regard for the >> Laws of Life, then, as I have mentioned, new knowledge just flows in >> and understanding increases. For one at this level, the price is one that >> he is quite happy to pay. This price has been expressed in the injunction, >> 'as you have freely received, so freely give'. I have told my clients that >> there is no need for my personal recompense but just pass on to others that >> which you have learnt and tell them to do the same. It works! LRH himself >> said that ideally scientology should be given freely but then he went on to >> find every reason why it couldn't be. That, perhaps, was the beginning of >> the failure >> of the C. of S. >> >> >> The way ahead >> >> >> Whilst I was thinking about the writing of this article it occurred to >> me that those who are closely tied up with any 'ism, 'ology, or group >> association may find it more difficult to reach a present life time >> case completion. This is because too close an association with such >> organizations tends to impose limitations of thought and actions. In the >> course of time they all are liable to deteriorate to the level of 'the only >> way'. Such an association may indeed be very valuable during one's lower >> levels in one's development but when they become restrictive, it is time to >> leave them. I went from christian to spiritualist to scientologist to the >> unnamed freedom that I now enjoy. This freedom I have found to be essential >> for me as I can not be restricted by others' set beliefs. Once one puts a >> label on any sort of activity, it can tend to cause it to become limiting, >> especially if it involves creating an organization. Since the separation >> of the many old time scientologists from the C of S many have found or >> created new forms of therapy and counseling. To me it is axiomatic that no >> one way will be right for everyone but that each of them will meet the >> needs of those who are able to gain from what it offers. This growth and >> expansion is especially true of the USA as a glimpse through the adverts in >> The Free Spirit will show. The only thing here that is not to my taste is >> that some of them still offer their knowledge and services only to those >> who can afford high prices. I feel that this in itself is highly likely in >> the course of time to cause the founders to lose their games. >> >> >> I agree with this assessment too. In addition, I would suggest that there >> may be concepts and truths here and there which are true and worth while >> and one should be able to note which those are and those which are not >> worth while. There is the situation where one may accept a dogma or a >> belief as a truth in the beginning and not be able to note the dogma or >> faith until one has progressed beyond the need or the understanding of >> either. That would only be possible as one continues to progress in >> knowledge and understanding to higher and higher levels of truth. With >> that I must say that one must continue incessantly with one's experience >> and one's actions to understand those experiences. Need I say this then >> tends to be an un-ending progression. This then also supports your >> consideration of 'isms', 'ologies' and groups getting to a point where they >> then become restrictive and limiting. Most, typically purport to be 'the' >> answer and quite often say they are 'the only true answer'. All that >> really does is say that there is a top, a limit to what exists and what can >> exist, past, present and future. Obviously a very limiting viewpoint and >> not the truth. >> >> Remember the effect that this eventually had on LRH. Others have offered >> their new-found discoveries for no more than, or just a little over, the >> cost of reproducing them. My personal knowledge of them has been Geoffrey >> Filbert with his Excalibur Revisited, Dennis Stephens with TROM and >> Flemming Funch with his two volumes of essays and his latest >> work Transformational Dialogues. There are undoubtedly others but I have no >> first hand knowledge of them. It does seem to me that these are the ones >> who are on the right and most survival path. >> >> >> A further warning is that one shouldn't make or imply false claims >> or unattainable results. In the current edition of The Auditor at the time >> of writing there is a banner headline in red: "Make it to full OT:- do >> the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course at Ron's home". This implies that >> doing so will make one full OT as defined by LRH. I have never heard of >> anyone achieving that as yet and I am sure that we would have, had it >> occurred. Irene Mumford (Mitchell) claimed that Dianasis would do this but >> just before she left her body she said that she didn't think this could be >> attained while still in a physical body. >> >> >> Let me end by saying quite briefly that if one does not pass on freely >> that which one has received, then the source and channel of that knowledge >> is very likely to dry up. On the other hand, when one passes on one's >> knowledge and experiences freely there is a never ending stream of new >> concepts and the understanding of life that accompanies this. This is the >> open channel to Spirit, Intuition or whatever you chose to call it but once >> you've experienced, you can never doubt its reality and value. >> >> >> Very true. Especially if one has a new understanding only common to >> himself then that understanding and its knowledge will come to an end and >> not go any further, it having been passed nowhere and it will not propagate >> any further through time and space nor through the non-physical universe. >> >> It has been a while since you last posted here on TROM. I find your posts >> enjoyable, worthwhile and thought provoking/stimulating. Where else do you >> post? >> >> Paul, Level 5 in progress >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trom mailing list >> Trom@lists.newciv.org >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/5276de05/attach ment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > Trom@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > End of Trom Digest, Vol 103, Issue 12 > ************************************* _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
