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Robin,
Thank you for your reply and input. Quoting you: *I guess it does not end (in our terms) and may theoretically lead to 'native state'. Which we once had but did not find too desirable because it's no fun.* I had a couple of very good releases in years past, (two weeks each) where I would say I was in something that I would call native state or certainly very close it. It was amazing, exciting and incredible fun, the ultimate fun, the ultimate existence. The problem is knowing how to use it properly, manage it and maintain it (stay in it). David . On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:10 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > ************ > Hi David, > > I do not necessarily agree with you regarding certain attitudes but still > respect your opinions as such. I see the disagreements on one hand and your > case on the other hand, respectively the possibilities to relieve it, as > separated aspects of your personality. > > In the light of your most recent post - which provides a lot of good data > from which one can start with a constructive proposal - I admit that my > previous > post was out of proportion and not really necessary or helpful for you. > > I hope you care to read further anyway. > > The interesting part(s) of your post(s) for me are those where you > gave some more insight into what you're actually doing regarding your > case. That is the part which I'm willing to acknowledge wholeheartedly. > And it is indeed that part where one can make suggestions in order to > support you in your endeavors toward a more fulfilling life. > > In previous posts you mentioned traumatic childhood (not specifically yours > but in rather generalized form. But since it is a recurring issue it may > not > be too far fetched to assume that this is something which you personally > feel > concerned with). In the recent one you mention "being criticized > by your father" and how easily you get restimulated by certain > circumstances > or people. > > I think, the more you cultivate the believes that your father's past > conduct is > the reason for present troubles in life, the more this will manifest in the > reality that you currently experience. This may be a good strategy to find > some > quick relief in that it delegates responsibility (= control) over ones own > situation > to an external entity (be it father, mother, god, ... you name it). The > down side > of it is that you strengthen the status quo which you're in and at the same > instant weaken yourself. You lessen your own beingness -> consequently you > reduce your doingness (e.g. loose a job) -> which leaves you with decreased > heavingness. Once that circle is started it tends to accelerate itself. If > one does not pull the brake in time and reverse this cycle one is in dire > threat of surviving well. > > Now, what could be done about that? Stop concentrating on the "traumatic" > incidents > of your past. They are traumatic because you have decided for yourself > that they are. > (Yes I know, that's hard to swallow and you do not like it a bit - sorry.) > Actually this is a pretense on your part and therefore a self created > apparency > and not an actuality. You can insist of course saying: "I can not do that" > or "I can't > confront that" or "It's too steep a gradient for me". Ok, so be it, if you > say so it > must be that way. As ironic it may sound, at least it shows that you still > can make > postulates stick. > > Well, abuse of children in a family is actually not very rare. That > includes criticism, > evaluations, debasement, application of physical force, sexual harassment > and > misuse, ... to various degrees and facets. Probably we all have done those > things > to others ourselves in other lifetimes, I certainly have. > I did experience some of those things myself but none of it had any big > influence on me > later. On an analytical basis it made me angry about my mother sometimes > but I > decided to take responsibility for those things happening to me. That > really > resolved the matter entirely. > > Why can it be that one person allows past events to influence him while > another > having similar past experiences is not impeded by them in life? > One difference may be how the individual assigns significances to the > timeless masses > around him. If it is your game to "make life more interesting" for you, it > sure > is the sensible thing to acquire "traumatic" incidents en mass (pun > intended). > Certainly an interesting game that is. There is no punishment for doing so. > But you sure have to bear the consequences of your decision (or call it > postulate) > thereof. It's not a question of right/wrong. It is not possible to put the > blame > (responsibility) for such a decision on fathers, mothers, teachers, gods, > gurus, > the boss, assholes, ... without making you smaller relative to the > opposing entity. > > Would a thetan care if another makes critical remarks or beat him up > (figuratively > speaking)? > > The whole idea I'd like to get across here is this: > One is free to see a problem in life (a problem with the mind) as a > negativity > (a negative external circumstance) - or alternatively - just an > attenuation of one's own > ability (something which one owns and thus has a certain amount of control > over it). > [Note: There is no such thing like a complete and utterly lack of a > specific ability. > If there were one then this could only be attained by postulate. But this > one would > violate some basic laws of the MEST universe - on which all of its > inhabitants have > once consciously agreed. It could only be done outside the universe. > Otherwise > it would not align with Logic 6. Corollary it is futile to complain about > the > frame of reference we're operating in.] > Further I ask you to consider the fact that you're obviously aware of > certain childhood incidents (symbols to which you attribute some power > yet). So those > things are located actually in the analytical mind. > (As a side note: I have a personal opinion, on the division of the mind in > a reactive > and analytical part, which is not in line with Hubbard's view. For me > there never > was such a thing like a unconscious mind or a reactive mind. There is only > "The Mind" > which may or may not have parts which do not function properly. Like there > is software > with and without bugs, or cars and cars which have defects but there are > certainly no > reactive cars. Dennis doesn't pay special attention to a reactive mind > either in TROM > (which simply means "The Resolution Of Mind" - up to a certain level you > could say as well > "The Repair of The Mind"). All in all this slight adjustment of view on my > mind did help > me a lot to get more "chummy" with it.) > > Now, all of the above has very much to do with personal believes and > attitudes which > are held by the being and are subject to change any time one sees fit. > > For many the practical application of the above is found to be difficult or > frustrating to integrate into life. > > But you can coax yourself into adopting for yourself more positive and > pro-survival > believes and attitudes by certain techniques which you do apply along a > gradient > scale which fits your case. Look and you'll find out for yourself the > right level > to begin with. The following is meant as examples only - examples which I > make up > inspired from what you revealed in your previous posts. See it as one of > many possibilities > from which you're free to choose, a rough outline of one possible strategy > follows. > > Here we go: > As a first exercise write down a list of all the conscious believes > you have. Be as honest with yourself as you can muster. Positive and > negative believes, > attitudes, ... alike. You'll soon recognize that this correlate with > wishes, desires > abilities you have. Avoid to think in terms of disabilities but rather in > terms of > (temporarily - for the sake of a game) attenuated or non-optimum abilities. > Derive a list of your assets (abilities) no matter how small or large they > are. > > You can as well do a list of what you _currently_ think of as > "disabilities". > Many of those things may be actually beneficial if just looked upon them > from > an altered angle. A "disability" may under altered conditions or under > repair turn out to be a valuable asset to you. The troubles (barriers) you > pose > for yourself in life have a purpose. The purpose is to overcome them and > explore > the learnings thereof. > > The point of the above activity is to strengthen or reestablish your sense > of > self-worth and help you to a brighter outlook towards your present and > future. > > Having done that you have got a base to proceed further. > > A couple of things that come to mind: > - You may desire to strengthen your third dynamic. From the list you can > see > where your talents and inclinations are lying. If you have troubles with > being > criticized by superiors did you ever consider to be self-employed? What > would you > like to do? Where do you excel? Any talents that lay dormant? Anything > that just > needs a tiny boost in order to be usable? Any dreams or goals you > entertained as > a child but which got lost somehow? > - You may feel a desire to normalize the relationship with your father or > certain family members. If this is not a too horrible thought, then try to > get > in communication with them - on a gradient. If the person(s) have left > their body(s) > already you may be able to get in contact with them in dream state. Just > wish for > a certain contact before you fall asleep. That works very well. (You seem > to have > some experience with that already - another great asset of yours!). > > Let's pick some more things you mentioned: > E.g. it seems that your original intention was to do your sessions seated > in a > chair. You found out that this was not practical for you to do in your > current > state of case. So you took a lower gradient and lay down in bed for > processing. > That was a sensible thing to do like crisis-management is the sensible > thing to > do in an emergency. You even report some remarkable wins. VWD! > Never the less, I assume that you still have some desire to get back to a > more > "normal" session set-up. Perhaps even coming up to a more orderly fashion > with > agreed upon schedule, session admin a.s.o. > It simply will improve your progress due to increased efficiency and more > flexibility > regarding your session times and duration. > > One way to do that is again by gradients. E.g. you lay in bed (current > state of > affairs which you have successfully mastered it seems). Next one could be, > you put > a pillow under your back and assume a slightly more upright body position. > If you can run processes comfortably you go on with sitting upright in bed > - step > by step. Finally you proceed into placing the body into a chair. And so on > - you got > the idea? > > Other example: > Say, you want to deal with "father". Again you do it by gradients. That > means that > you do not mock up your father immediately as he was/is or let the mind > throw incidents > with father at you which you think you can't handle right now. Replace > father with > symbols. E.g. mock up, a stick with a punching ball upon it, or a > skeleton, a little > old man, a dwarf, a (real) anal orifice ;-), ... does not matter. place > the things around > you, change size, colors, texture, ... create many of them, explode them. > burn them, > throw him out of the window, shoot em into the sun, make them disappear, > ... what so ever. > Do what ever you want with your creations. Use your fantasy and creative > powers > (that's all a thetan actually has). Just make sure YOU made the things, > YOU manipulated them, YOU're in control of them. When you feel comfortable > at a certain > level of abstraction you make "father" more and more real looking. And so > on. > Flatten any com-lags before you move on. > Invent situations and moving scenes and made up dialogues similar to those > you had > troubles with in real life. Invent circumstances and problems of similar > and even larger > magnitude than those you have or had. Handle them creatively until you can > do it with > ease to your satisfaction and w/o excessive com-lag. Your acceptance and > willingness > to experience similar situations under real-life-conditions will > eventually improve > up to a level where you have control over any restimulative powers in your > mind. > They'll disintegrate layer by layer. > > You see there is some similarity to RI and of course feel free to apply > the technique > of time-breaking if whole scenes pop-up. However, I do not recommend that > you provoke > the pop-up of heavily loaded incidents on purpose at this moment. > > Why do those techniques work? And why are they not as limited as e.g. > Engram running > by chains or running single charged incidents in a narrative fashion? > > It works so well because those routines emphasize on the beings abilities > and ignore the > negative aspects of the case. The theory behind is, that one seeks to > increase a beings > ability rather than trying to erase ones inabilities. The latter can lead > to some spectacular > improvements in a case but leaves a case prone to get worse again after > some time. It > appears almost cruel to leave a being stripped off its aberrations but > still not armored > sufficiently with abilities to create, change, vanish, manipulate energies > and all kind of > facsimiles. It will only be a matter of time until he once again falls > prey to the masses > he inflicts on himself or allows others to inflict on him. > > If you work towards greater knowingness (which establishes control and > thus ability), such a > approach can be followed eternally (if you still like to think in terms of > time as we > know it). Thus it is an unlimited process. And further this explains very > conclusively why > cogniting through study improves a case tremendously. I think I've made > more case progress > with study than with porocessing. Nothing beats both done simultaneously. > I have no idea where it would lead one. I guess it does not end (in our > terms) and may > theoretically lead to 'native state'. Which we once had but did not find > too desirable because > it's no fun. That's of course just speculation on my part and currently > not of much practical > relevance. Just could not resist to mention it right now - cause I'm just > fond of that > thought. > > However that may be, if one becomes an expert in doing mock-ups they > should sooner or later > be more real to you than MEST. Then they should become even recognizable > to others and > then it will require a couple of more training steps until one can > manipulate MEST at will > in the same fashion as mock-ups. That means that one really can _have_ > MEST. You need to _have_ > things before you can abandon them. *) > > Ok, back in the MEST realms: > You mention that you take walks outside and looking at things. An > excellent practice to > remedy havingness. > > I guess it would extremely benefit you to get a thorough run on CCHs by an > auditor who > has them flat on himself. I'd really love to give them to you, but please > understand that it > would be too impractical for me to do a trip to the US just for a couple > of days. > It can not be done by wire because it requires close body control. Do you > see any chance to > find someone in your neighborhood who could do that? > > > Robin > > > *) Try the following experiment (this is not a process!): > a) Look at a MEST object and when you have done that stop looking at it. > b) Create a mental image picture which is 100% your own creation - a > unique specimen, so to speak. > c) Make a mock-up of some MEST object which you can easily remember (a > duplicate). > d) Do a mock-up which is something in between b) and c). > (The sequence of this list is arbitrary!) > > Now evaluate the quality of a) b) c) d) in terms of "density", "solidity" > or "perceived reality". > Would you say that it is possible to align a) b) c) d) along a scale of > "most solid <--to--> least solid"? > > I had a small win on that and found out that mocking up and then getting > rid of certain > MEST objects which I had assigned significances in terms of > "desirable"/"undesirable" becomes > easier. It definitely improved havingness on certain objects which were > somehow "uncool" one way or > other. > Thanks to Colleen for the inspiration to that little experiment. I was > intrigued by > her "TROM Digest, Vol 142, Issue 7 - RI Helps Me Reason Better (The > Resolution of Mind list)". > It had not occurred to me before that I could use RI on re-created (by > mocking up) real possessions > of mine. > > > > On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:00:03 +0200, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > > Send TROM mailing list submissions to >> trom@lists.newciv.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Question for David P. RE Be-Do-Have >> (The Resolution of Mind list) >> 2. RE The Gordon Ramsey Video clip (The Resolution of Mind list) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 14:20:03 -0700 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Question for David P. RE Be-Do-Have >> Message-ID: <mailman.4731.1473628789.1326.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hi David >> Well Done on timebreaking the present time situation. >> It's good to hear you are making progress in eliminating your mind. >> >> Sincerely >> Pete McLaughlin >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 11, 2016, at 11:39 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>> >>> ************* >>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> ************ >>> Colleen: >>> >>> Quote: My question for you is how are you currently processing >>> be-do-have and what results are you seeing? >>> >>> >>> >>> For about three years now, I have been doing level three. >>> >>> I couldn't do it sitting in my chair, because I would pass out. >>> >>> >>> So I found out that I could do it lying in bed. >>> >>> >>> I would do it before falling asleep if I was not too tired, or more so >>> when I wake up in the middle of the night, and do it until I fell asleep >>> again, which was usually not too long. >>> >>> >>> I just alternately punched in: >>> >>> Prevented from being, (must be- can't be) >>> >>> Prevented from doing, (must do-can't do) >>> >>> Prevented from having. (must have- can't have) >>> >>> And other issues (junior goals). >>> >>> Even abuse (degrade). >>> >>> I had no trouble (that I am aware of) running such non life goal. >>> >>> >>> And I would scan and time break what ever pictures came up. >>> >>> If I did not have enough energy to time break, (which is/ was usually >>> the case), I would just hold them in view and make them more intense, >>> get into them more, or what ever until they run flat. >>> >>> >>> I would usually fall asleep before they run flat. >>> >>> My mind would often continue to process while I slept. >>> >>> >>> >>> During the day, I would occasionally go for walks and look at things >>> near and far. >>> >>> >>> My mind is now still. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I have been running L4 for a few days now, and I have a hard time >>> finding pictures. >>> >>> >>> I know there is still lots there somewhere. >>> >>> I still easily get restimulated, especially in conflicting situations >>> with assholes and idiots (SPs) . >>> >>> >>> I still have lots of catatonia and cataplexy and other disorders. >>> >>> I have engrams on work from a very young age, by being always scolded >>> to work and being criticized while working by my dad. >>> >>> Work is restimulating especially when the boss gets angry for some >>> reason. >>> >>> Facsimilies would come up and overwhelm me into paralysis (cataplexy and >>> catatonia) and before long I was no more good on that job and would get >>> fired or had to quit. >>> >>> That has been my life story. >>> >>> >>> >>> Last week I was helping someone do some work on his house and he was in >>> a bad mood one day and got angry at me for no good reason. >>> >>> Traumatic pictures came up. >>> >>> I was able to time break them in a couple of minutes and then was not >>> overly bothered by them. >>> >>> I kept my cool. I stayed in the game quite well. >>> >>> This never happened like that before. >>> >>> I was pretty impressed with myself. >>> >>> That is just like Dennis says in the book. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Now I think it is mostly "other(s)" postulates left. >>> >>> L5 is another story. >>> >>> I am working on it. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> David >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 1:01 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>>> ************* >>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>>> ************ >>>> >>>> Hi Colleen >>>> Thanks for the video clip of Gordon Ramsey. He did not understand >>>> what the meditation was for. He was not ready to let go of his compulsive >>>> games playing. >>>> >>>> Very good example. >>>> >>>> Keep on TROMing >>>> Pete Mclaughlin >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Sep 11, 2016, at 9:13 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>>>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ************* >>>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>>>> ************ >>>>> Hello, DavidP (Note: there are two other Davids on this list), Colleen >>>>> here. Thank you for bringing up be-do-have. There was another Trommer who >>>>> gave it a lot of importance and processed it using Level 4 commands. BTW, >>>>> did you know "To Have" is listed as a junior goals package? >>>>> >>>>> Did you know that Hubbard said to resolve be-do-have limitations >>>>> starting first with "To Have"? For example, what is important for you re >>>>> To Have, then, using reason, what would one have to do in order to have >>>>> that, and then what would one have to be in order to do that? >>>>> >>>>> That is from Hubbard...it was about having. Hubbard could just as well >>>>> have said the same thing about "To Know". One wants to know >>>>> something/someone, so what would they need to do in order to achieve that, >>>>> and then what would they need to present themselves as being in order to >>>>> do >>>>> that? So, isn't to-have really to-know? >>>>> >>>>> I recall those Old Testament (King James version) stories where a man >>>>> would get married and then he would enter the tent and "know" his wife, >>>>> whereas today we might say "have" or something else, but I think the King >>>>> James translation was a more accurate higher truth than they may have >>>>> realized. >>>>> >>>>> My question for you is how are you currently processing be-do-have and >>>>> what results are you seeing? >>>>> >>>>> For myself, "To Have", or "must have" (as a compulsion) is part of my >>>>> "Must Know" case, i.e., I must have it so I can know it, experience it. I >>>>> must have a comm line with that person so that I can know them/experience >>>>> whatever effects they are creating; so best to find someone who wants to >>>>> be >>>>> known [for that] so the relationship can be complementary. For example I >>>>> have a complementary relationship with a "must know" person who is very >>>>> happy with me as long as I am feeding them good data regarding subjects of >>>>> their interest, or latest problem to solve. >>>>> >>>>> As for "To Be", wouldn't that correspond with Dennis' junior >>>>> universes? For example, to be a fisherman, and getting stuck in that >>>>> universe. John Galusha's Idenics process is one way to expand ability to >>>>> be. Dennis says the universe is life and postulates, and an identity is >>>>> some postulates rigged together. >>>>> >>>>> I agree with you that - in spite of its utter simplicity and >>>>> effectiveness - Level Two is a tough gradient for the complicated minds on >>>>> this planet. If you click on this video and forward to 18:00 you will get >>>>> a >>>>> demo of what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch? >>>>> v=IY2Nc6JPBW8. If the link gets scrubbed google Gordon Ramsey in >>>>> Thailand and go to the 18:00 mark. >>>>> It's not only Trom, it's ALL CLEARING PRACTICES that compulsive / >>>>> complicated / noisy / egoic minds run away from. >>>>> >>>>> When a person gets down to their last game leg (as they see it) then >>>>> they might start self-enquiring, searching for an end to suffering, and >>>>> the >>>>> craziness, and possibly for someone to help them resolve their mental >>>>> issues. >>>>> >>>>> I am postulating the best outcome for you. >>>>> >>>>> colleen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TROM mailing list >>>>> TROM@lists.newciv.org >>>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TROM mailing list >>>> TROM@lists.newciv.org >>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TROM mailing list >>> TROM@lists.newciv.org >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20160911 >> /0e30bf71/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 22:05:23 -0400 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: [TROM1] RE The Gordon Ramsey Video clip >> Message-ID: <mailman.4788.1473645913.1326.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hello, Pete, many thanks and much appreciation for your determination to >> gather together the Trom materials, even going to Australia to visit his >> wife, and now continuing to keep it all together on the internet and in >> book form. >> >> RE Gordon Ramsey, he is a famous chef and a multi-millionaire with a known >> heroin problem, which I do not know if he has resolved that or not. He has >> had to commit overts against himself and others to be allowed to be made >> famous as he is now. Perhaps if the peaceful monk had asked him to "Walk >> to that wall .... thank you ..." ? >> >> There is the joy of competency - when handling a near psychotic - or truly >> psychotic - spiritual being is like poetry in motion, instead of our usual >> responses. >> >> Hubbard exhibited that level of artful competency when he ran his simple >> little process on me last lifetime near the end of my hugely irresponsible >> life last lifetime, and that's largely why I am here now and finally able >> to take responsibility for my suffering, and to see everything in a new >> light... with the help of some of my spiritual brothers and sisters, >> whether they intended it or not. The bottom line was me asking myself the >> "right" questions, postulating a certain path (for me) to "Native State". >> >> How does one get command power over their own mind when they have none? >> Well, true, there are no absolutes. Hubbard's answer was the CCH's, simple >> TRs courses, auditing of engramic pasts with a trained auditor, the >> Grades, >> co-auditing Dianetics, Self-analysis, and the Purif. Dennis began his >> career co-auditing Dianetics, and rebooted himself doing RI and Level Two. >> >> Even if one does not have certainty of themselves they can have certainty >> of their chosen nirvanic path. >> >> colleen >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20160911 >> /512d304a/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TROM mailing list >> TROM@lists.newciv.org >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> >> >> End of TROM Digest, Vol 143, Issue 13 >> ************************************* >> > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > TROM@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >
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