************* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org ************
LRH attempted to win a game that extended further up the "food chain ", and it appears he was overly hasty and lacked good intel,esp. Re the "techno gods ". I'm very appreciative that he popularized and brought to my attention some clearing tech.
Speaking with some grim humor, after reading the "Donald Marshall " letter and reading the follow up pointers on his Proboards, and taking a personal LOOK, I better understand why Dennis bemoaned the "material" on this planet. In my case it is necessary for me to for now stop resisting "evil" and develop compassion for all computing psychotics- compassion along with skills to address them, for I came into this universe with a very negative attitude,and it has taken me trillions to see what I did to myself and others, and to step up to the plate with Trom. Pete, I agree with you about being thoughtful and considerate re invitations or "convincings" to get onto someone's personal rollercoaster. We like to be voluntary and knowing players, and to play with such. For example,I had someone go temporarily insane when their bullbaiting failed to get me involved in a political discussion. I actually had to timebreak the hot accusation of being unpatriotic. I guess I am beginning to enjoy my inner peace and quietness borne from detachment and a realization of how degraded are our social engineers: If I don't have command power over my mind someone else will. Karalee On Monday, November 14, 2016, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > Send TROM mailing list submissions to > trom@lists.newciv.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Cynic (The Resolution of Mind list) > 2. LRH and Donald Trump (The Resolution of Mind list) > 3. Re: LRH and Donald Trump (The Resolution of Mind list) > 4. Vorb's TROM Diary - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 145, Issue 19) > (The Resolution of Mind list) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 20:47:38 -0500 > From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > Subject: [TROM1] Cynic > Message-ID: <mailman.27853.1479093147.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Definition of *cynic* > 1 : a person who has negative opinions about other people and about the > things people do; *especially* : a person who believes that people are > selfish and are only interested in helping themselves > > *2* : a faultfinding captious critic; *especially* : one who believes > that human conduct is motivated wholly by self-interest > > > > A cynic is someone who has an aversion to the truth or for the truth. A > cynic does not want to know or see the truth. He sees or insists to see > something other than what is actually being said or done. He argues right > to be wrong and wrong to be right, good to be bad and bad to be good, true > to be false and false to be true. > > He refuses to see, realize or understand that people can have positive or > unselfish motives. Cynicism if you really think about it, is in fact a form > of insanity, a form of psychosis. > > > *Psychosis: * > > > 1. a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired > that contact is lost with external reality. 2. a severe mental disorder in > which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with > external reality. 3. a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions > are so impaired that a person cannot discern between right and wrong, good > and bad, and true and false. 4. A mental disorder that sees wrong where > there is right, bad where there is good, false where there is truth, or > vice versa. > > 2. In the general sense, a mental illness that markedly interferes with a > person's capacity to meet life's everyday demands. In a specific sense, it > refers to a thought disorder in which reality evaluation is severely > impaired. The person is unable to interpret situations accurately and solve > problems effectively. A mental condition that causes a person to do > everything wrong or screw up everything. Like a computer that gives wrong > answers. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20161113/320f38b7/attachment-0001.html > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:30:03 -0500 > From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > Subject: [TROM1] LRH and Donald Trump > Message-ID: <mailman.27854.1479093147.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > LRH was quoted as saying this: > > > > > When I wrote it [Excalibur] I gave myself an education which outranks that > of anyone else. I don't know but it might seem that it takes terrific brain > work to get the thing assembled and usable in the head. > > > > > > * I do know that I could form a political platform, for instance, which > would encompass the support of the unemployed, the industrialist and the > clerk and day laborer all at one and the same time. And enthusiastic > support it would be. Things are due for a bust in the next half dozen > years. Wait and see.'Towards the end of the letter he wrote about strange > forces he felt stirring within him which made him feel aloof and > invincible.* > Can you see megalomaniac LRH; living on in megalomaniac Donald Trump? > > > David > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20161113/034f3992/attachment-0001.html > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:06:43 -0800 > From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > To: trom@lists.newciv.org > Subject: Re: [TROM1] LRH and Donald Trump > Message-ID: <mailman.27878.1479100380.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hmmm! Maybe. > > I definitely can see two high paid political propaganda machines going at each other full bore and rousing the rabble to extreme antisocial behavior. > > Keep in mind that people go crazy all at once but recover slowly one at a time. > > Let things quiet down for 6 to 12 months and see if anything has changed. > > Keep on TROMing. > Anything that rouses your to anger in the environment is handing you free incidents in your mind that you can profitable timebreak. > > If you can come out of this political season with feelings of joy and love toward all you will be well on your way toward nirvana. > > Sincerely > Pete McLaughlin > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Nov 13, 2016, at 6:30 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >> >> ************* >> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >> ************ >> LRH was quoted as saying this: >> >> >> >> >> When I wrote it [Excalibur] I gave myself an education which outranks that of anyone else. I don't know but it might seem that it takes terrific brain work to get the thing assembled and usable in the head. I do know that I could form a political platform, for instance, which would encompass the support of the unemployed, the industrialist and the clerk and day laborer all at one and the same time. And enthusiastic support it would be. Things are due for a bust in the next half dozen years. Wait and see.' >> >> Towards the end of the letter he wrote about strange forces he felt stirring within him which made him feel aloof and invincible. >> >> >> >> Can you see megalomaniac LRH; living on in megalomaniac Donald Trump? >> >> >> David >> _______________________________________________ >> TROM mailing list >> TROM@lists.newciv.org >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20161113/4df2b4a4/attachment-0001.html > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 08:56:44 +0100 > From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> > To: trom@lists.newciv.org > Subject: [TROM1] Vorb's TROM Diary - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 145, Issue > 19) > Message-ID: <mailman.27885.1479110597.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Hi Vorb, > > please find my comments inserted into your text below. > > >> Hi Guys, >> >> I am very happy to inform you, that I just hit my 100 hour goal >> for 2016 and this gives me 200 hours altogether with TROM. >> >> You can read my previous reports here: >> at 100 hours: >> http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/2016-March/005194.html >> at 150 hours: >> http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/2016-August/005376.html >> >> So what happened? >> First of all RI started to work at around 160-170 hours in. >> Before that, when I did RI nothing happened. I run it >> no yawning, no needle movement on the e-meter, no change >> at all. So I got used to it, just did it for a minute or >> two, and then moved on to level 2. Sometimes I run it >> for 15 minutes, just to see if it turns something on. >> Well the Tone Arm on the e-meter started to rise very >> slowly (as it should do with havingness processes) and >> reaches around 3.5 in about 15 minutes, but still no change. >> And then out of the blue at around 160 hours I yawned >> a very little, and then more and more, and harder and >> harder the yawning become. In the last 30 hours I yawned >> just as hard as running an event for usually 20 minutes. >> So I start the session, do RI for 20 minutes, with a lot >> of yawning, then puff, all of a sudden the yawning is >> gone, I try for 2-3 more minutes and then move on to >> my special mixture of level 5 with level 2. >> >> So I take the postulate failure chart, put the postulate >> in the wall, wait a few seconds, and ... yawning starts almost >> immediately. Soon and event pops up in my mind from this life. >> Then I take the event and run it on level 2. This takes >> these days somewhere between 10 - 30 minutes. I do RI >> afterwards (this time nothing happens) and look back on the >> postulate failure chart put the postulates back, start >> yawning almost immediately, then in a minute a new >> event appears and repeat the whole thing. >> Then I finish with RI (nothing happens here) > > Those events that appear, do you regard them as significant or > charged events? Or are they just every-day events which you > remember? In the latter case running through them or timebreaking > them would not do much. You can not discharge an uncharged > incident. > > Further, there is some risk - particularly for PCs who have had > a past in Scientology - that they have a strong focus on the > way incidents are run in Dianetics. They believe that auditing must > always be about incidents and discharging traumatic incidents. They > have a tendency to be biased in that direction and auditing which is > based on concepts appears unreal to them. (A good example of > processing which is not based on incidents but rather handles them > from a conceptual point of view is the "Black and White" procedure > from the book Scientology 8-8008. That simple process handles > engrams wholesale without ever touching a single specific incident. > In that regard TROM L5 is similar. There is a high level of > abstraction contained in it which is necessary to make it runnable > as a solo self-clearing method. Of course incidents - even highly > charged ones may pop-up. But do not expect that exclusively. > > [Quote Dennis: > "Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're > dealing purely with postulates. > You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're > dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's > postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting > up sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not > mocking up people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors, > or situations. You're simply mocking up postulates. What > we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole level > of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working with at > level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything else, we > timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work > with postulates at Level 5. > "It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very > strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just > working with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when > you get into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you > wouldn't dream of working with anything else but postulates > because you get the fastest results working with postulates > and you always work with just postulates. You simply > timebreak out everything else that shows up. > Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or > whatever shows up, you simply timebreak them out. > So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once > you grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work > then on level 5 and realize what you're doing."] > > Listen (or read) again very carefully the tape which Dennis made to > explain the L5 procedure step by step. > He says: > ["Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any > sensations that show up. > Your whole situation is of cameo9, as a scenario, as a scene, > and you timebreak out anything that happens. Anything that > shows up, you time break it. Time break it out until it's gone"] > > So you pick up not only the visual content but as well e.g. > emotions, feelings, ... to timebreak them. > > Make sure that you really put up the right postulates. Which > would be in the case of the first line of the chart the MBK > (Must Be Known) of the _other_ (your opponent) and not your > own postulate. > > I quote Dennis again: > ["If you go over the column 1 on the chart you see that the level > here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know. Get that? > Doesn't matter what it is, you don't have to specify as we are > just working with the postulates. So you would put up "Must > be Known" over that way in the class of not-self. > Now get yourself right where you are, right here where you > are with the "Must Know" postulate. There's a little danger > there that you could say, ?Oh well, get me over that way.? > Oh no, that's wrong. You get here right where you are with > the "Must know" postulate."] > > Make very, very sure you have that right. Because otherwise the whole > procedure will not work as intended. > >> This squirrel method was developed by me because all of >> you urged me to move on to level 5, and because I wanted >> to have some wins. Well, I still did not have a single win, >> but it is instructive to see for example me criticizing >> others or others criticizing me and so on. > > What do you regard as a win? > You may have expectations which can not be met by a certain tech. > People often go into Scientology or other practices driven by > a desire to get rich, have power, have a good 2D, ... > And that is the way it is sometimes advertised. It's not > about spiritual development or freedom. > In auditing this is known as "Hidden Standard". > > Quoting you: > "it is instructive to see for example me criticizing > others or others criticizing me and so on." > > Isn't that a win for you? > > Definition: > [HIDDEN STANDARD, 1. a hidden standard is a problem a person thinks must > be resolved before auditing can be seen to have worked. It?s a standard by > which to judge Scn or auditing or the auditor. This hidden standard is > always > an old problem of long duration. It is a postulate-counter-postulate > situation. The > source of the counter-postulate was suppressive to the pc. (HCOB 8 Nov 65) > 2 . > is not just a physical or mental difficulty but one by which the pc > measures his > case gains. A case measurement thing used secretly by the pc. (BTB 18 Sept > 72) > Abbr. HS.] > >> *Level 2 overrun?* >> Previously some people hinted that I overrun level 2, >> but I no longer believe that. I spoke with my auditor >> and he told me: and overrun is immediately visible on >> the meter as a sharp rise of the Tone Arm, which would >> settle between TA=4 - 5 in 1 to 2 minutes. This has never >> ever happened. > > That's good that at least "overrun" can be ruled out now as > a reason for your troubles. > > So we have left those options: > - L2 is flat (at least for the time being). > - L2 is left unflat somehow. > > Now, you could ask your auditor to check that by asking you > on the emeter. He would as well use buttons like "suppressed", > "invalidated" on the question. > > And do not forget to check on L3 and L4 as well! > > But finally your own opinion about the answer will be the only > valid criterion. You can always trust your own feelings in that > respect. > >> *What About RI?* >> My auditor told me, that very often preclears start >> auditing, they go really fast, and then at some point >> they collapse, and then the auditing really start to >> bite. Many preclears give up then, feeling they lost >> all wins. He compared it to a river you have to swim >> through, but some preclears start to ice skate on >> the thin ice on the river banks, until the ice cracks >> and then the hard part begins. I believe at 170 hours >> of trom the ice collapsed under me, so I reached the >> bottom, all I have to do now is swim, it cannot be >> worse than this. > > That is a sensible assessment. > > As well do not expect spectacular wins and cognitions from > RI when the CCHs and L1 had been flattened on you. > > The purpose of RI is not even to bring in your rudiments at > the start of a session. If that is what you need you better do > it with timebreaking all the events of the day (as Dennis > proposes in the same tape I've been referring above). > > The purpose of RI is to remedy havingness. Auditing which is > effective (you see TA-action on your meter which is a measure > of charge being blown off of your case) a PC experiences an > effect which can be described as depletion of havingness. > RI balances and remedies that unwanted sensation. > > Definitions: > > [DEPLETION OF HAVINGNESS, the truth of something, even when arrived at > by the route of subjection and force, will as-is the something and cause > its > vanishment, and thus it is no longer had. This is called by auditors the > depletion > of havingness. (5601C31)] > > [HAVINGNESS, 1. that which permits the experience of mass and pressure. > (A&L, > p. 8) 2 . the feeling that one owns or possesses. (SH Spec 84, 6612C13) 3 > . can > be simply defined as ARC with the environment. (SH Spec 294, 6308C14) 4 . > that activity which is run when needed and when it will not violently > deflect the > pc?s attention. (SH Spec 85, 6111C28) 5 . the result of creation. (SH Spec > 19, > 6106C23) 6 . the ability to duplicate that which one perceives, or create a > duplication of what one perceives, or to be willing to create a > duplication of it. > But it?s duplication. (lSHACC-10, 6009C14) 7 . ability to communicate with > an > isness. The ability to conceive an is-ness and communicate with it. ( > 17ACC-4, > 5702C28) 8. havingness is the concept of being able to reach or not being > prevented from reaching. (SH Spec 126, 6203C29) 9 . the need to have > terminals and things to play for and on. (Dn 55!, p. 137) Abbr. Hav.] > > >> *What are my wins/realizations?* >> Was I ever angry while doing trom? No! Sad? No! >> Depressed? No! Any emotion? Nada! >> Only yawning, yawning and more yawning. >> I guess I will have no wins (realizations) until I >> move out of yawning (unconsciousness) and reach the >> lowest levels of the tone scale. > > Isn't that an excellent cognition? > Give yourself a VWD. > >> *What's next?* >> For 2017 my goal would be 200 hours which would put me >> at 400 hours of trom altogether. >> My auditor said that a preclear needs 450 hours >> on average to get to scientology clear, so I am willing >> to put in that much effort. Dennis said that completion >> of level 3 results in a higher state than Clear and even OT8, >> so it would be stupid of me to think that 50 or 100 hours >> of level 2 processing would get me above Clear. >> I hope I will have the willpower and endurance, maybe I will >> decrease my goal back to just a 100 hours ... will see. >> Problem is: I still yawn (my mouth is open) for about >> 90 % of the auditing time, my nose still runs, and very often >> I have to sleep/nap after 1 hour of trom auditing. >> If I don't sleep oftentimes I'm completely useless for the >> rest of the day. (and yes, I tried with RI ... did not help) > > When you compare Scientology auditing with any self-help therapy > in order to estimate a time span which is necessary to achieve > the same results consider the following: > > a) Estimates for yourself are very inaccurate because you have > to place your case within a very broad bandwidth of case-states. > Such an estimation is liable to introduce large error-factors in > your calculation. > > b) The progress toward higher states of consciousness is not a > linear curve. It often happen in jumps of different sizes. > Usually they get larger as soon as you have found out of the > thick mire. > > c) It is not fair to compare a self-clearing tech with one that > is administered by a professional therapist. That would be the > same as comparing the performance of an automobile to a bicycle. > You have to make compromises if you want to make it solely on > your own or you want to save money. As they say: "Time is money." > > d) Out of own experience and what I've learned from others I can > tell this: > If one relies exclusively on processing in order to progress as > a being, the progress will be slow and you're liable to grind to > a halt somewhere. It was not only for their stats' sake when > the registrars of the church recommended to not neglect the > study/training path on the bridge. > > I guess I've always made more progress by assimilating knowledge > than by processing. Both together are an extremely powerful team - > more than just the sum of each. > > Did it ever occur to you that the manifestations (GIs or VGIs, > F/N, cognitions and case gain) are actually the same no matter if > they are derived from processing or study? Interesting, isn't it. > > So, if you want a recommendation, I suggest devote some of your > schedule to study. Oh, and do not forget to live :-) > > >> Any comment or encouragement is very welcome! >> >> Good Tromming, Vorb > > > Best regards > > Robin > > > > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> < http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20161111/08513e74/attachment-0001.html > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:42:14 -0800 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Vorb's Trom Diary at 200 hours >> Message-ID: <mailman.26698.1478890090.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Hi Vorb >> In your study and auditing at level five have you figured out the games >> you are playing in life and begun to recognize when others are trying to >> get you to play a role in their game? >> >> Sincerely >> Pete McLaughlin >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 08:53:22 +0100 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: TROM <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> Subject: [TROM1] Replay B60 >> Message-ID: <mailman.27095.1478944131.1261.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" >> >> Sent*Saturday 12th of November 2016* >> >> by *ant.phill...@post8.tele.dk*(Antony Phillips) >> >> >> This begins with the reminder of how things were in those days with >> regard to viruses. I expect everybody on this list as an antivirus >> program, the modern answer. >> >> >> Note that this is a resend of a message sent some years ago, and some >> data (like addresses)is liable to be inaccurate. >> >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> >> >> >> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 21:02:06 +0200 >> >> To: tro...@newciv.org >> >> From: Antony Phillips <i...@post8.tele.dk> >> >> Subject: [trom-L] Replay B60 >> >> Mime-Version: 1.0 >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> >> >> ************* >> >> The following message is relayed to you by tro...@newciv.org >> >> ************ >> >> >> >> last sent: Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:30:44 +0200 >> >> >> >> WARNING: If your receive an .exe. file by email from me (or anyone >> >> else) do not run it. I received happy99.exe from a friend. As I felt I >> >> trusted her, I opened it. Saw a firewoirk display. Later I sent a >> >> message to a list I was member of, and found happy99.exe had also been >> >> sent, in a seperate email, but with the same subject from me! It is a >> >> worm. >> >> >> Data can be found on: >> >> http://beta.nai.com/public/datafiles/valerts/vinfo/w32ska.htm >> >> and >> >> http://www.avp.com/happy/body_happy.html >> >> >> I also received the following handling procedure: >> >> >> ****************' >> >> >> Removal and Protection >> >> >> If the worm is detected in your system you can easy get rid of it just by >> >> deleting SKA.EXE and >> >> SKA.DLL files in the system Windows directory. You also should delete the >> >> WSOCK32.DLL >> >> file and replace it with WSOCK32.SKA original file. The original >> HAPPY99.EXE file should >> >> be also located and deleted. >> >> >> To protect your computer from re-infection you need just to set >> >> Read-Only attribute for the >> >> WSOCK32.DLL file. The worm does not pay attention to Read-Only mode, and >> >> fails to patch the file. This trick was discovered by Peter Szor at >> DataFellows >> >> http://www.datafellows.com >> >> >> ********************** >> >> >> Excuse the harsh beginning - it is wise to be wise before hand. Not, >> >> like me, an unsusecting victim and passer on to others. >> >> >> Here is the replay! >> >> ************** >> >> Subject: meter/computer interface >> >> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:33:58 +0200 >> >> From: Antony Phillips <i...@post8.tele.dk> >> >> Organization: International Viewpoints >> >> To: tro...@newciv.org, ivy-subscrib...@lightlink.com >> >> CC: vacuumst...@compuserve.com, n...@mindwalker.co.uk >> >> >> >> For those of you interested in meters connected to computers, the >> >> following message appeared on: >> >> ======== >> >> Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology >> >> Subject: new product >> >> From: ra...@hilton.org (Ralph Hilton) >> >> Date: 23 Sep 1998 07:45:48 -0400 >> >> >> On 23 Sep 1998 02:23:48 -0400, in alt.clearing.technology >> >> n...@mindwalker.co.uk >> >> (Nic Ford) wrote: >> >> >> >Press release (or should it be net release?) >> >> > >> >> >My website now contains details and a downloadable file for the new >> meter >> >> >computer interface. >> >> > >> >> >Regards, Nic Ford >> >> > >> >> >Nic Ford >> >> >The Computer Film Company >> >> > >> >> >> The URL is http://www.mindwalker.co.uk/compinterface.htm >> >> **************** >> >> >> >> All best wishes, >> >> >> Ant >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Ralph Hilton >> >> http://Ralph.Hilton.org >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > TROM@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > End of TROM Digest, Vol 145, Issue 21 > ************************************* > --
_______________________________________________ TROM mailing list TROM@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
