Perry, Well we certainly agree on THAT! The poor mormons are dupes of JS at best--may God save them by His mercy. However, I wonder if you cannot believe that the Lord could give further revelation in this day via the Holy Spirit which IS be in agreement with scriptures? I believe there are some on TT who believe He does. Izzy
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles P. Locke Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 3:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Law Izzy, please stick with me and read my entire post. I do not believe that Joseph Smith received any revelations from God. Either he made them up and subsequently came to believe them (perhaps in order to keep from being lynched by the large number of followers his little prank had collected), or he was delusional, or his revelation was from Satan. It is a known fact that he dabbled with divination. Is it more than coincidental that he was a "peeper", that is, claimed to be able to find buried treasure by looking into a "seer" stone (his arrest record for bilking farmers using this method is recorded and has been published for review), and that he also used two "seer stones" to "interpret" the "gold plates"? Why do the LDS overlook this? Is it coincidental that the "translated" BoM contains entire chapters and verses copied verbatim from the KJV? The book is obviously a fraud, and there are other extant works that predate the BoM that are based on the premis that ancient Hebrews populated the Americas, and are the ancesters of the American indians. Even BH Roberts, a very prominent LDS historian acknowledges that enough written material existed prior to the "translation" of the BoM to have provided it's content through plaigerism. Why do the LDS overlook this? It is a known fact that JS and his brother Hyrum were both 33rd degree Freemasons. I do not know how much you know about Freemasonry, but they use secret handshakes, signs, passwords, penalties, and incantations in their ceremonies. JS shanghaied the secret ceremonies from the Freemasons and made it a part of the LDS "temple endowments". Since Freemasonry is considered occultic, Mormonism, which uses the same occultic rites, must also be occultic. Why do the LDS overlook this? Read Doctrine and Covenants number 132, about adultery and polygamy, and keep in the back of your mind that while these revelations were being "revealed" to JS, he was engaged in adultery. ("No man knows My History", by Fawn Brodie.) It is so ludicrous, that JS even claims that God told him that if his wife, Emma Smith, did not embrace polygamy that he would destroy her. JS obvioulsy used the redefinition of adultery, and "revelations" about polygamy to justify his own adulterous tendencies. This, my dear believer friend, is against the Holy Scripture, and was only for the benefit of saving JS from being an adulterer in the "church" (I hate to besmirch the word) that he created. Not only did he have the audacity to contradict the Holy Scripture, but to claim that this is a "new covenant" with God. That is blasphemous, evil, and sinful at it's very core. This alone should raise a red flag to the LDS, but since they place more importance on the heretical works of JS that the Holy Scripture, they have gone astray. There is not a single LDS member today that will tell you that polygamy is a sin. They will only state that "we don't practice polygamy today", but they have to beleive it is still a new covenant with God, otherwise they are not true LDS believers. Why do the lds overlook this? So, I believe that God does reveal many things to individual believers on an individual and personal basis, but I do not believe that he has delivered any revelation upon which new doctrine can be based, or that would change anything that has already been written by the Apostles. That is what I mean when I say that the BoM, D&C, do not add one iota to the gospel, regardless of what the LDS claim. The gospel is Holy, perfect, and complete as written. I'll tell you why the LDS overlooks these things. Because to cast doubt on the church means to 1) be disfellowshipped from the "one true church", 2) to be castigated and looked down upon by all of your family and close friends, and 3) to lose the opportunity to become a God. Becoming a god is the very thing that Satan's pride caused him to want, and caused his fall; Eve's pride caused her to want to be god, and also caused her fall, and the LDS' pride causes them to want to be gods today, and is thier fall. And, since Satan is the father of lies, what more can I say? Izzy, hope this helps clarify the kind of "revelation" that JS received. If you are looking for a word to classify this type of revelation, lets use "lies". Perry >From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Law >Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:46:47 -0600 > >Perry, Thanks. But I would still like to have a more concise definition >from you now that you have said there is "personal" vs other kinds of >revelation, if you don't mind. This might help us to define the kind of >"revelation" the mormons claim to have. Izzy > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles P. Locke >Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 1:28 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Law > >Izzy, I was waiting for you to ask that or a similar question. Thank >you. > >Of course the HS has given me information. He has convicted me of my >sin. He >has shown me my need for a saviour. He has answered prayer by leading me >to >the right path...all of a personal nature. > >But he has never told me that all Christian denominations are an >abomination. He has never told me to go find some "gold" tablets and >"translate" them. He has never told me to start a new church that is >contrary to scripture. He has never told me to marry many wives, and >that to >not do so would damn me. He has never told my wife to shut up about >polygamy >or He would destory her. He has never revealed to me the need for a >"temple", or told me to steal the secret ceremonies of the Freemasons >and >use them as endowments in a temple, or led me to make false prophecies. >And >most of all, He has never revealed to me anything that is contrary to >the >Holy Scriptures, that would contradict what the Apostles have already >written in the canon of the NT. > >The long and short of it is that there is more than one kind of >revelation. >Personal revelation is one thing, and I think that if we are walking in >the >spirit we receive such. But, anytime anyone starts out by saying "God >told >me...", I become suspicious, especially if what they say God told them >contradicts the Holy Scriptures. > >So, I believe that the HS is active in the world, busy guiding and >working >with believers, and this may even lead to large results in the world, >but I >do not believe God is revealing new revelation that is undermining his >own >church. > >How does that appeal to you? It validates your experience regarding >revelation, but still maintains my point about "new" revelation that >changes >what has already been written. But it is all revelation, i.e., >information >from a supernatural source. (BTW, if JS truly did receive revelation >(information from a supernatural source), and it contradicts scripture, >then >whom might we assume is the supernatural force from which this >infomation >came? Hmmm.) > >Perry > > > > > > > >From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Law > >Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 11:36:53 -0600 > > > >Perry, > > > >Do you mean to tell me that the Holy Spirit has never given you > >information? > >Izzy > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles P. >Locke > >Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 10:05 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Law > > > >I don't think I can change the meaning of a word because one person > >claims > >to have had a revelation. > > > > >From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Law > > >Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 09:19:26 -0600 > > > > > >Well, then, I've had that myself more than once. I'm sure I'm not > > >unusual for that! Sure you don't want to define your meaning again? > >Izzy > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles P. > >Locke > > >Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:39 PM > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Law > > > > > >The sense in which I am using revelation is information that comes to > >an > > > > > >individual by divine or supernatural means. A supernatural >"revealing" > > >of > > >information. > > > > > >Perry > > > >From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Law > > > >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:22:49 -0600 > > > > > > > > > > > >Perry, > > > >Just for clarification, would you care to define "revelation"? > > > > Izzy > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:TruthTalk- I AM > >saying > > > >that 1) no additional > > > >revelation beyond the NT is necessary relative to the gospel >message > >or > > > >salvation, > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > >may > > > > > > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > > >http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > > > > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email >to > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > >have > > >a > > > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. > > > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7 > >4 > > >74&SU= > > > >http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_elimin > >a > > >teviruses_3mf > > > > > >---------- > > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you >may > > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > >http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you >have > >a > > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you >may > > > > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > >http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you >have > >a > > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&D >I > >=7474&SU= > >http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smarts >p > >amprotection_3mf > > > >---------- > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > >http://www.InnGlory.org > > > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have >a > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > > > >---------- > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > >http://www.InnGlory.org > > > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have >a > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&D I >=7474&SU= >http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smarts p >amprotection_3mf > >---------- >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > >---------- >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
