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I have no idea if the new covenant invalidates the sabbath.
I do know that Jesus said " The sabbath was made for man,
man was not made for the sabbath. To me, that means the
sabbath was a gift, not a chain around my neck.
I am not, and never have been under the law. The law is of value
to me, however, because it shows me part A of God's plan,
and thus allows me to appreciate part B better. It also shows
me why everyone needs a savior, since no one can keep the
law, and it gives me a good look at God's moral standards.
Since Marlin said that sin is breaking the law, and said he keeps
the law, he must not consider himself a sinner.
I sin every day in spite of my best efforts not to. If I drive a mile over the speed limit, I sin, since the Bible instructs me to obey the rulers. If someone insults me and I am offended, my sin is pride.
If someone pulls out in front of me or takes a parking place that I
wanted, and I think to myself that he is a jerk, I sin, because I am
to love my neighbor, even my enemy.. I need a savior. I can't even
keep the easy ones. You might consider these small things.
On a scale of one to ten, adultery might be a nine, and going over
the speed limit a one, but they are all sins.
In a baseball game, you can swing and miss three times and be
out. You can even stand at the plate for three called strikes
and be out. Or you can hit the ball right down the middle to where
the center fielder has to climb the fence to catch it, and still
be out.
The one that was so close to being a home run can lose the
game just as easily as the one who went down without even
swinging. There is no little out and big out. There is no
"almost safe," and there is no inconsequential sin.
How often
do you sin, and why? Inquiring minds want to know.
Terry
From: TruthTalk@mail..TIf I might jump in here, I have a couple of questions myself:
1. Does the New Covenant invalidate the Sabbath?
2. Does the NC mean we should not try to obey God’s laws?
3. Did you ever hear Marlin say that he has never sinned, and does not need a Savior?
4. Why do you sin every day? According to the New Covenant, you don’t have to. (It’s called the Good News).
Izzy
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 5:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The relationship between Torah observance and eternal life.
I think we may have some faulty thinking clouding the waters here guys. Think about what you are saying Michael. Sabbath means seventh. If you have no sabbath day, you got a six day week, and somebody has to come up with a new calender.
Marlin, you are quoting scripture that was spoken to prople under the law, by Jesus, who also kept the law, because all this was prior to the resurrection. Jesus had not yet become our perfect sacrifice, and there was no way other than the law at the time those words were spoken. The new covenant never got started good until the book of Acts.
Please try to get in touch with reality for a moment. You are not a keeper of the law. When you break one, you are as guilty as I am. All have sinned and come up short. That includes you. That is why we need a Savior. I try to live a life that will please my Lord, but I find that I sin every day, if not in deed, at least in thought. I probably sin a lot more than you, but that does not mean you are not a law breaker. God's word says you are. To say otherwise is to call God a liar. You don't want to do that.
-------Original Message-------
Date: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 15:04:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The relationship between Torah observance and eternal life.
Michael D: It is important to understand that In the new covenant there is no Sabbath day. There is a sabbath, but not a Sabbath day. So, sabbath day is not every day of the week as you are questioning, nor is it Saturday or any other day.
Then what day is it that Jesus is Lord of?????????????????????????
MAT 12:8 {For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.}
MAR 2:28 {Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.}
LUK 6:5 And he said unto them, {That the Son of man is Lord also of the
sabbath.}
I think you are trying to change the word of God. There are other types of Sabbaths, of the Land for instance, the Jubilee, and a millennial Sabbath can be deduced. How can you have a close "relationship" to God and do away with His commandments? Since when does obedience become evil?
Do not fall into the trickery of the decietful workers of iniquity [lawlwessness]. Keepers of the law do not sin, "...for sin is the transgression of the law." (1JO 3:4). Therefore, law keepers are under grace.
ROM 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the
law, but under grace.
Law breakers are not under grace, for "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law..." (1JO 3:4) Sin has dominion over them, not God. Oh whom do you want to serve? Sin or God? Choose.
ROM 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his
servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of
obedience unto righteousness?
If you want to sin, serve Satan; he is your god. All these silly arguments are for those who want to worship on the day of the Sun god. Notice:
LUK 13:27 {But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart
from me, all ye workers of iniquity.}
LUK 13:28 {There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see
Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom
of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.}
MAT 19:17 And he said unto him, {Why callest thou me good? [there is] none
good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life,
keep the commandments.}
1JO 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God,
and keep his commandments.
1JO 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his
commandments are not grievous.
REV 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with
the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and
have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
REV 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
--Marlin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The relationship between Torah observance and eternal life.
Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Now, let me ask you if you are open to me showing you that the seventh day
> Sabbath commandment was also a shadow. Are you willing to consider
> Scripture and arguments to consider this? My position is that the seventh
> day Sabbath was a shadow. Your position is that it was not a shadow.
> Correct?
>
> David Miller
As a shadow, God's presence is in it, a holy day, set aside for
fellowshipping with Him. It is a shadow of God's coming dwelling with men
in His millennial reign, as well as His dwelling with us in Spirit now. But
we must also work the six days, so the same fellowship is not possible on
the days He has not sanctified as holy.
Are you willing to consider that the Sabbath is the seventh day?
Are you willing to consider that the fourth commandment is about working the
six days that precede it?
Trying to say it is "every day" is an idea of men, invented because they
refuse God's clear commandment and want to meet on the venerable day of Sun
worship.
--Marlin
Michael D: It is important to understand that In the new covenant there is no Sabbath day. There is a sabbath, but not a Sabbath day. So, sabbath day is not every day of the week as you are questioning, nor is it Saturday or any other day.
It is a relationship of rest in Jesus by faith. We cease from our own works for righteousness, and become children of God by faith in Jesus, appropriating His work for us on the cross. I realize that this concept has been very difficult for you to grasp, but it is the Word of the new covenant.
Again, Paul says that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law... Rom 3...
Marlin, do you consider yourself to be under the law?
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