Good response Terry, Sanctification is not a thing that happened for us 2,000yrs ago; it is a daily choice on our part to 'work out our own salvation with fear and trembling'. I was recently surprised myself to learn that Paul wrote Romans 7 after he himself had been born again for more than 20yrs. I had heard faith teachers say that Romans 7 was describing an unregenerate man but even Paul wrote that he had NOT already attained but that he pressed on.
IMO these doctrines deny reality and are dangerous. Grace and Peace to you today, Judy On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:23:13 -0500 "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Bruce: > > I thought I had communicated so that anyone could understand. > Evidently > not. Too bad. > > I have a dear friend who has cancer. In the past three months, he > has gone > from two hundred pounds to 137 pounds. From a big robust man to a > bag of > bones. He will not live another week. He lives now in terrible > pain. Tell > him that dying only takes only an instant. > > Since many people die from old age, and since we begin to age at the > time of > conception, I would say that we begin the dying process when we > begin to > age, before we leave the womb. Dying is a long time thing. > > I am not yet able to love everyone, every moment, as I love myself. > No > matter how hard I try, I am not certain that I always do work for > other men > the way I would do it for my Lord. That is a daily struggle. I > must > consciously decide to crucify the old man and live for the Lord. > > Evidently, you are no longer tempted to sin. Good for you. I > cannot say > that. > > Terry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Woodford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 9:47 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dare you to read this II! > > > > Hi Terry, > > > > You wrote:"People who took up their cross in Jesus' day were not > on their > > way to a picnic. They were going to die. When you take up your > cross, you > > no longer live, but Christ lives in you. The plans and wants I > once had > > are no longer important. They are dead. What is important now is > serving > my > > Lord and trying to live a life that pleases Him. Since the > struggle to do > > this never ends, it is a lifetime job, and at the same time a > joy. > > > > Does that not make sense to you?" > > > > Dear brother, All of the Lord Jesus' statements relative to taking > up the > > cross and following Him were made PRIOR TO HIS CRUCIFIXION. This > sort of > > statement is never repeated for people this side of Calvary! > Rather, our > > death with Christ was accomplished when He died. That is why Paul > stated > in > > Gal.2:20..."I am (or have been) crucified with Christ, > nevertheless I > live, > > yet not I, but Christ liveth in me and the life which I now live > in the > > flesh I live by the faith of the son of God who loved me and gave > Himself > > for me." > > > > Death is never a process, but it take place in an instant. Death > is always > > separation of two or more things and life is always the union of > two or > more > > things. > > > > (1)The death which Adam and Eve experienced in the garden when > they sinned > > was separation from God. We often call this "spiritual death". > See > Gen.2:17 > > and Isaiah 59:2 > > > > (2)Physical death takes place when one's soul and spirit are > separated > from > > their body. See Gen.35:18 and James 2:26 > > > > (3)Death to sin took place when the Lord Jesus bore our sin in His > own > body > > on the tree and thus took it from my account. Romans 6:9,10 and I > Peter > 2:24 > > > > (4)Death to the law and it's condemnation also took place at > Calvary. When > I > > realized what actually happened at Calvary, that I was justified > (declared > > righteous in Christ) I learned that the law was fully satisfied > and > > therefore I was separated from every charge that had been against > me! > That > > is why he that believeth on Him (Christ) is NOT CONDEMNED! See > Col.2:14; > > Romans 5:1-11; John 3:18 etc > > > > But it is an absolute impossibility to be separated from one's > self! So > > "death to self" is an impossibility and is not even a scriptural > term! > > > > In Adam, I experienced spiritual death. I was separated from God. > (Eph.2:1) > > > > In Christ, I experienced death to sin and death to the law. > > > > I have not yet experienced physical death, i.e. separation of my > soul and > > spirit from my body. > > > > I do not know anyone in the Bible or in history who has ever died > to > > themselves! Do you? > > > > I believe that many Christians live lives of continual defeat > because they > > are trying desperately to "die" but have never been taught or > never > believed > > what scripture states and declares that they have already died > with Christ > > > and have already been raised to walk in newness of life in Him! > Truths of > > scripture have no effect or power in one's life UNTIL THEY ARE > BELIEVED! > So > > as long as I am trying to do something that God declares is > already > > accomplished, I do not believe what God has said and therefore I > do not > > experience the practical power of that awesome truth! > > > > Many people know that Jesus died for sinners, but they are not > saved! It > is > > only those who actually believe, "Jesus DIED FOR ME!"...WHO ARE > ACTUALLY > > SAVED AND ENJOY GOD'S SALVATION! > > > > So too, many people believe that Jesus died unto sin and unto the > law, but > > they do not believe that THEY THEMSELVES ALSO DIED TO SIN AND TO > THE LAW > IN > > CHRIST! Therefore they do not know nor can they enjoy the > practical > reality > > and power of these facts in their own daily experience! > > > > Remember, the just shall live by faith, i.e. believing what God > has said! > > > > Your brother in Christ, > > Bruce > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > ---------- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that > you may > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email > to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. 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