David Miller wrote:
DAVEH wrote:DAVEH: I don't know how many times I've said this, but I will say it again as I'm sure many TTers think I've been preaching baptism for the dead on TT. That is not the case at all (though I did at one time quote LDS passages to you---at your request---in reply to your questioning why we practice it). Rather I have repeatedly pointed to vs 29 to show that the practice of some early Christians baptizing for the dead implies they believed baptism was necessary for salvation. Does that not strike you as a valid evidence of my contention that is a necessity for those who wish to return to heaven?
> I think it is more of a generic form of speech for
> something that was relatively commonly practiced.
> What good would it do Paul to use a practice of
> paganism (or non Christianity) to teach a Christian
> principal? It does not make logical sense.I think it makes sense because Paul often pointed to nature and the
voice of conscience. I think the same way as Paul does about these
things. For example, many pagan practices are based in truth. Human
sacrifice, for example, is based on the idea that without blood shed,
there can be no remission of sins. Using it as an example of a first
truth, something known to the conscience of all men, is perfectly
logical.DaveH wrote:
> Now speaking from the perspective that WE are all Christians,
> as much as some want to rationalize this passage, I don't
> think THEY can easily divorce THEMSELVES from an association
> of baptism for the dead and Christianity.I'm not certain that the Corinthians were not practicing it, but even if
they were, the language that Paul uses is not one of approval.
He says,DAVEH: Hey DavidM.......I am NOT a linguist. You definitely have me on shaky ground when you start talking grammar, linguisticks and all that 4-bit word stuff......
"what shall THEY do..." Then in the next breath, he says, "and why
stand WE in jeopardy." If this baptizing for the dead was something
that Paul taught them or that Paul practiced, surely he would have said,
"what shall we do who are baptized for the dead" or "what will happen to
the dead for whom we are baptized." The sentence makes no sense at all
if it applied to himself and what he did or what he taught the
Corinthians to do.I still think you are skirting around the language and the use of the
third person pronoun "they."
DAVEH wrote:DAVEH: Then does it not seem likely the Bible would have condemned it at some point, as it did many other practices not in harmony with Christianity?
> Which only makes the usage of the baptism for the
> dead reference so much the more relevant. The Corinthians
> would relate to baptisms performed by other Christians,
> whereas it wouldn't make much sense if Paul was referring
> to non Christians who baptized for the dead.Don't forget their background. I think it very likely that the pagan
Greek culture along with Judaic and Christian influence could readily
produce the superstitious practice of baptizing for the dead.
ThisDAVEH: Are you nuts, DavidM!!! What are some of the other TTers going to say (let alone think) when they hear YOU agreeing with a Mormon boy?!?!?!?! <VBG>
could be in several forms, as a Christian sect of the Corinthians, or as
a Jewish sect of John the Baptist followers, or even as a pagan sect. I
don't know exactly which form it took, but I do agree with you that it
would be something which the Corinthian Christians were familiar with.
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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