Dean Moore
Fear God and keep His commandments/ trust Jesus
> Dean wrote:
> > I believe that apart from God good works are of
> > a selfish motive. It's like what can they receive
> > in turn for the good work. Even love.
>
> We agree that apart from God, there is no such thing as good or love.
> Nevertheless, you seem to hint on the idea perhaps that only Christians
> love and have good works. Is that what you think? Do you think that
> only those who are born again manifest any goodness?
>
> My position is that those who are apart from God sometimes do experience
> God, before they have actually become born again and experienced the
> life changing experience of regeneration. Are we in agreement with this
> concept or not?
Before repentance and acceptance of Christ one serves Satan-they belong to
him thru sin because they listening to him instead of God-He is their Lord
not God.The tern "apart from God" means just that -Apart From God. These
are parted from God. How can they be experience anything of God while in
that state. No I am not in agreement of this statement.
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>
> David Miller wrote:
> >> No, I do not believe that Satan is able to say
> >> Jesus is Lord. That would be like asking Hitler
> >> to say that a Jew is King of the world.
>
> Dean wrote:
> > Matt.8:29,31
> > Jesus is recognized as the son of God and in verse 31
> > His power is recognized-by demons. So Satan can say
> > Jesus is Lord but would he really mean it? Would the
> > Jesus that Satan would portray lead anyone unto
> > salvation-No -this Jesus he would portray -would only
> > corrupt-not save.
>
> Recognizing Jesus as the Son of God is not at all the same as saying
> Jesus is Lord. When a person or spirit says Jesus is Lord, this is
> giving acknowledgment to him and his authority and power over him. For
> a demon to say, "you are the Son of God" conveys none of this idea. It
> is only an acknowledgment and serves for deceptive purposes. Demons
> readily acknowledge who Jesus is, the Son of God, but they are terrified
> of the concept that Jesus is Lord. Though they acknowledge that Jesus
> is Lord, they do not confess that Jesus is Lord in any way.
Dean writes:
Didn't these demons in Matt 8:29 acknowledge his power and
authority???Reread it.
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>
> David Miller wrote:
> >> I meant the kind of grace that is extended to men
> >> whereby they experience the light of God but have
> >> not yet been brought to salvation.
>
> Dean wrote:
> > All men are giving knowledge of God and knowledge of sin.
> > God said he would write his laws in every mans heart.
> > Some simply will not repent and go deeper into the darkness-
> > Yet will come to you in sheepish clothing.
>
> How are all men given knowledge of God and knowledge of sin? Is it not
> through a working of God's grace? Is not the Holy Spirit involved in
> such? I'm trying to see if we are in agreement that God works in the
> hearts of those who are not born again Christians. Do you believe in
> the work of the Holy Spirit in the unbeliever?
Dean writes:
I believe that all men were giving knowledge of God-it is in the very
nature of the world.Yet they change this knowledge into something
corruptable.I believe all men received light thru Jesus and that light is
the moral laws are written into our hearts (John1:9) which makes one
accountable.
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>
> David Miller wrote:
> >> In your perspective, is it possible for a Mormon
> >> to experience God and the illuminating work of the
> >> Holy Spirit that happens in the unbeliever prior
> >> to salvation? Do you see them as in utter darkness
> >> with no light whatsoever just because they are
> >> "Mormon," or do you recognize a grace that operates
> >> whereby the light of Christ comes to them, but not
> >> yet bringing salvation.
>
> Dean wrote:
> > I believe that if that light is upon them they still
> > have a choice to make-How can one know Jesus and
> > teach/stang against his truths.
>
> This happens all the time, not just in Mormonism, but in all branches of
> Christianity. Most people do not walk in the truth of Christ, though
> his light shines upon them.
The bible says they will not come to that light because of transgressions
and that their deeds were evil-They do not want to be reproved-their
pride-which was the cause of Satan fall-prevents them from coming to that
light (John 3:20). You cannot say one is in that light and teach contrary
to that light.
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>
> Dean wrote:
> > Can a practicing Homo know God? Can he be saved and
> > still do the perversion?
>
> I'm not talking about the grace of God which has brought the born again
> experience. We know and agree that those who believe in Christ do not
> continue to sin.
Dean writes:
Tell me-without God spirit can one even know good?That is what you are
saying??
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>
> Nevertheless, there is a work of God's Spirit that touches them while
> they are still in sin, and while they are still involved in false
> religions and false teachings. That is what I am seeking to get
> understanding and agreement about with you. You seem to think that if
> someone has gotten involved in a man-made religion that somehow that
> makes them anathema to God to such a degree that God does not reveal
> himself to them in any way.
Dean writes:
I am told to know them by their fruits-You are telling me there is a
another way to know them. Satan is a deciever-He can do a show of good but
it will be for a wrong purpose.The words that he will come in "sheepish
clothing" is telling us that.But looking to their words we know them-Do
they teach Jesus and Him crucified As Laid Out By The Bible if not avoid
them.
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>
> Dean wrote:
> > To teach Mormonism is to teach the unclean-to touch
> > the filthy thing. How can one be clean while still
> > touching the filthy thing.
>
> They are not clean. As we have heard DaveH confess many times, he
> acknowledges that he continues to sin. Joseph Smith said the same thing
> about himself. These men know that they are not born again and not yet
> saved. The problem is that they have hope that they will be saved
> because that is what their religion teaches them. They believe that
> because they have been baptized by the proper authority, they will be
> saved. This is just like the Pharisees who believed that because they
> were children of Abraham and circumcised, they would be saved.
Dean writes:
Here is where we differ the most. You believe they are here to learn.I
believe they are here to corrupt-it is their nature.If they were seeking
then they would have found- they are not seeing because they do not want to
do so.The bread has been put before them and they will not eat-yet they
claim to seek bread-You claim they seek bread and still they do not eat.To
have the light of God is to want more of that light. To eat that bread is
to hunger for more of that bread-they have not ate nor do they want more.
They have another source of bread-a vile bread they prefer. Give me
evidence that they are eating God's bread and we can talk-then we have
something to work with-and then I am with you and will show you the
patience of Job with them to my ability by my measure of faith..
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>
> Dean wrote:
> > If God is giving one knowledge to the saving grace
> > will not that one be moving away from the filthy
> > thing I see not evidence of this-I see those here
> > moving closer to that which is not clean. I see a
> > bias here David-yes- clear as a bell.
>
> I think it only appears to you that I am moving toward Mormonism because
> I do not operate by a religious spirit. From my perspective, all
> religions of men are nothing. So for me, Mormonism, or Baptist, or
> Presbyterian, or Roman Catholic, or Methodist, or Muslim, or Seventh Day
> Adventist, or Messianic, or Judaism, or whatever... What do any of these
> institutions of religion have to do with salvation? Anything? The only
> thing that matters is Jesus Christ. A Baptist who is distracted from
> Jesus Christ because of his religious denomination is just as lost as
> the Mormon who is distracted by his. Is Mormonism more dangerous than
> the Baptist sect? Certainly, in many ways it is, but the principles are
> still the same and God's Spirit works across the religious boundaries
> that men construct in the same way.
Dean writes:
On this I can agree! And who will I know a sheep in wolves clothing
Baptist? By his words/fruits- If he teaches another Jesus and another way
of salvation-Kevin is not doing this! DaveH is! That is the difference.Our
understanding of Gods word will never be perfect-but to teach another way.
If one is doing this I am to try and tell them God's truths -up to a point
-then I must avoid them! How is this wrong?
>
> What concerns me about your approach is the religious bigotry that
> constantly manifests itself. You would not treat a lost Baptist in the
> same way as you would treat a lost Mormon. Your attitude towards
> Mormons is more like that of the apostles who wondered why Jesus would
> even talk to that Samaritan woman at the well.
Dean writes:
Then you would have to put Jesus and John in this class of religious
bigot.God would also fit you definition of religious bigot. If I am one so
are they-I am telling you what they said.You are the one holding different
standard toward baptist and Mormons.I tell both groups the truth.I am told
to remove myself from those who teach another gospel after showing the
truth-I will do this to all.If you choose to stereotype me for doing
so-that is your choice but I advise caution. The roofer contractor-The
painting contractor-The masonry contractor-One employees wife -all have
dropped dead for doing what you are doing within the last year. Many other
have a sickness that cannot be cured for speaking evil in their heart about
me-after being shown truth. Without God I am nothing-but I do have God and
he hears me.Stop making me out to be evil for speaking truth. I can support
what I say with the Bible-I don't see you doing so. God said he will be a
father to the fatherless-I had/have no father-but now I do.
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>
> Imagine a Baptist and a Mormon standing next to each other in a park.
> They see in the distance a homeless man being beaten and robbed of his
> food stamps. As the attackers run off, the Baptist is thinking to
> himself what he should do, while the Mormon goes to the hurt man, puts
> him in his car, and takes him home and cares for him until he is better.
> Which of these two men do you think was walking in the grace of Christ?
> Do you think the scenario is impossible because a Mormon would never act
> with this kind of love? Do you think that the Mormon must have some
> ulterior selfish motive because he is Mormon and not Baptist?
Does the Mormon do well for goodness sake or does he say in his heart:" If
I help this man I will be a greater God in eternity"?And how would one know
this-by their short term words or their long term words?If they have so
much goodness/light why do they not speak Jesus Christ (the one of the
bible)?
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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