Dean Moore
Fear God and keep His commandments/ trust Jesus
> So if every good gift comes from above, then when an evil man does good,
> the source of that also must come from above.
Dean writes:
And what is Daveh's good fruit?Is it good to eat of the forbidden fruit in
the garden? Daveh thinks so-If he were in the garden he would tell A&E to
eat the fruit so that they can be a God. Sound familar?
============================================================================
==================================
>
> James, the brother of Jesus, sheds more light on the teaching of Jesus
> in Matthew 7. He reiterates what Jesus taught, using the illustration
> of a fountain yielding both salt and fresh water. In his teaching,
> however, he readily acknowledges that both blessing and cursing does
> come from the same mouth, something which he says ought not so to be.
> He says it "ought not so to be" but at the same time acknowledges that
> it happens. Following is the passage quoted for your convenience:
Dean writes:
Is it right for it to happen?
=======================================================================
>
> But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly
> poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we
> men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth
> proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so
> to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and
> bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a
> vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. Who is a
> wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good
> conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter
> envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the
> truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual,
> devilish. (James 3:8-15 KJV)
Dean writes:
But with God all things are possible-The spirit of God can help us control
the tongue as it helped Jesus-prayer and fasting can control the flesh unto
subjection-can it not?
============================================================================
============================
>
> Even Paul, in his letter to the Romans, speaks about how God's grace
> manifests itself even greater in the presence of sin (Romans 5:20).
> This at first seems contrary to how many people think about God's grace.
> We generally think that God is favorable toward those who refrain from
> sin. Nevertheless, the Scriptures are true and cannot be broken.
> Therefore, we need to understand the work of God's grace in the life of
> the unbeliever and sinner.
Dean writes:
I believe Paul was talking about those who are born again -with a focus on
the young Christian who tried his best to do right? Do you agree?
============================================================================
==================================
>
> Jesus clearly taught a specific work of the Holy Spirit in the life of
> the unbeliever. It deserves our attention. Consider the following
> passage:
>
> Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go
> away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if
> I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove
> the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because
> they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and
> ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is
> judged. (John 16:7-11 KJV)
* And wasn't Jesus speaking to the Apostles?
>
> Now this passage is an important one in regards to preaching to sinners,
> which is what street preachers do in contrast to those who preach
> exclusively in pulpits. Here Jesus speaks of the work of the Holy Spirit
> in the lives of those anointed by Him. One of those works is to reprove
> the world of sin. You and I understand that this work of the Holy
> Spirit is manifested through people anointed by the Holy Spirit. The
> passage specifically says that the Holy Spirit will reprove the world of
> sin, "BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE NOT ON ME." Therefore, this work identifies
> what the Holy Spirit is doing in the life of the unbeliever. The
> unbeliever does not believe in Jesus, and so the work of the Holy
> Spirit's job is to reprove him of sin. How does the Holy Spirit do
> that? Well, one way is through us who are filled with the Spirit.
> That's why Jesus said that this was something that would happen later,
> after they received the Holy Spirit. Then they would minister as Jesus
> did and take away the cloak of sin which unbelievers regularly wear. So
> this is what you and I do when we preach under the anointing of the Holy
> Spirit to those who do not believe in Christ. We reprove sin.
> Nevertheless, this is not the only way in which the Holy Spirit works.
> The Holy Spirit is not just in our mouth as we speak such reproof, but
> he also works in the hearts of those who hear, to convince them that
> what we are speaking is true. That is why we often observe sinners come
> under conviction and cannot seem to just walk away. They disagree with
> us, and even become angry with us, but there is a work of the Holy
> Spirit going on in their heart BEFORE THEY ARE BORN AGAIN.
Dean writes: All men receive knowledge of God commandments because of Jesus
Christ- In other words the Holy Spirit lets all us know if we are good of
bad-this is in our hearts (John1:9). Bit the problem is there are those who
refuse to come onward towards God because they do not want to accept their
faults (John3:18)-which I take to be a pride issue. Yes he often reveals
what is to the lost but they will not receive the latter part that bring
them unto goodness until they repent and believe. Until they do this they
ar3e a tool of Satan and will speak his words and do his bidding-and if
they claim to be one of God's while doing this-they are called a false
prophet and we are to avoid then . Romans 16:17 ...contrary to the doctrine
which you have learned; and avoid them.
============================================================================
==========
>
> So my point here is that we need to have some basic agreement about how
> God works in the lives of both those who do not believe in Jesus, and in
> those who do believe in Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not an elitist who
> says, "oh, you are a member of such and such club, therefore, until you
> quit this religious club, there is nothing I can do for you." The Holy
> Spirit works without partiality as to whether a person is a Mormon, a
> Muslim, a Jew, or a Baptist.
Dean writes:
I would agree that the first work of Holy spirit will be towards those
who God know will chose him-the others will only hear the words and reject
those words-to their deeper destruction.The second work will not be giving
until they repent unto Jesus-and yes there is no one type of people who he
may or may not work with-but a proven false teacher is another matter-that
you will have to deal with at some point.
============================================================================
=========================
>
> The very purpose and work of Jesus Christ is to cut across the religious
> boundaries of men. If we truly want to be effective in seeing Christ be
> all in all in our community, we need to adopt this perspective that God
> is mighty and working within the hearts of both believers and
> unbelievers to draw them unto Jesus. Such an understanding then leads
> us to see that God is working also within the hearts of Mormons as well
> as the hearts of Baptists. This does not mean that we give Mormon false
> doctrines a pass. It simply means that we do not mix our teaching of
> correction with religious bigotry. We work toward bringing the focus
> back upon Jesus Christ, and when people see Jesus, the works of men in
> religious rituals and creeds and organizations will just appear to be
> like the toys that children play with.
*David why do you insist that I don't know this?I have told you many times
that yes -God will save Mormons also-in fact he wants them to come to
salvation-I want them to come to salvation. We are not talking about
helping the lost man-that we must do! We are talking about a false
prophet/Teacher-that is another matter entirely. They are the harbingers of
seducing spirits-those we are to avoid.
============================================================================
============================
>
> Dean writes:
> > Didn't these demons in Matt 8:29 acknowledge his
> > power and authority? Reread it.
>
> Yes, they acknowledged his power and authority, but they did not confess
> him as Lord. Demons acknowledge Jesus as Lord in the same way that
> Howard Dean recognizes George Bush as President. :-)
Dean writes:
How could they acknowledge His power and authority without realizing who
he was? Do they not go together?
============================================================================
======================
>
> Dean wrote:
> > You cannot say one is in that light and teach
> > contrary to that light.
>
> I do not say that Mormons are "in that light" in the sense that they
> have salvation. The Mormons themselves say that they are not yet saved,
> so there really is no argument about this.
Dean writes:
Because Daveh says he is a sinner-then his false teaching are to be
ignored? Where do you get this stuff?
============================================================================
=============
>
> One problem is that they think they can believe in Jesus without being
> saved. I consider that an impossibility. Their "faith" is presumption;
> otherwise, they would experience the new birth and know what we are
> talking about when we talk about the new birth.
* Then perhaps they believe in a Jesus who is a good man of a good
prophet?But that is not why they are here-as we are giving direction so are
they but consider the source of one who would say" Eat the fruit it is good
and you will become a God". That is only part of what they aren't telling
you. Wake up David!
============================================================================
=========================
>
> Setting Mormons aside for a moment, I'm not sure that your statement
> stands even concerning those who are in the light. For example, I
> believe that Kevin is in the light. He is my brother in the Lord and he
> has been born again. Yet, I have heard him teach something contrary to
> the light. He has taught that the Holy Spirit does not work in the
> lives of modern believers as taught in passages like John 14:12, 16:13,
> Acts 2:38-39, etc. Kevin has taught that there are no prophets today,
> which is in violation of 1 Cor. 12:21 because I have testified as his
> brother in Christ that I am a prophet. Read the whole text, 1 Cor.
> 12:12-31, and see how prophets are specifically mentioned as being part
> of the body of Christ in verse 28. So how can Kevin teach contrary to
> the light, yet be in the light, according to your perspective?
David if you believe Kevin is wrong-can you say you are correct about all
what you teach? No you cannot-as you still have growing to do. The same is
with all of us here on this site but we have a base to grow from-We speak
the words of the Jesus of the Bible not the words of the devil-God had sex
with Mary?
=======================================================================
> David Miller wrote:
> >> Nevertheless, there is a work of God's Spirit that touches them while
> >> they are still in sin, and while they are still involved in false
> >> religions and false teachings. That is what I am seeking to get
> >> understanding and agreement about with you. You seem to think that
> if
> >> someone has gotten involved in a man-made religion that somehow that
> >> makes them anathema to God to such a degree that God does not reveal
> >> himself to them in any way.
* The word of God can cut asunder the soul and the spirit (Hebrews
4:12)-why has it not even fazed these guys-Is it that weak or are they of a
wicked heart.
============================================================================
================
>
> Dean wrote:
> > I am told to know them by their fruits-You are telling me
> > there is a another way to know them.
>
> No, I am not telling you that there is another way to know them. I'm
> simply saying that just because someone is a false prophet, that does
> not mean that the Holy Spirit has had nothing to do with them. Just
> look at Balaam as an obvious example. Balaam was a false prophet, yet
> the Holy Spirit spoke through him blessings upon Israel, did he not (see
> Numbers 24)?
Dean writes:
Read the rest of the story-Balaam errors in the matter of pe-or and lead
Israel to sin (Num. 23:28, Num.25:18) and many in Israel went to hell
because of him-(2 peter 2:15) This is what I am warning about David! The
fruit is good to eat saith Daveh and the devil.
============================================================================
=======================
>
> David Miller wrote:
> >> They are not clean. As we have heard DaveH confess many times, he
> >> acknowledges that he continues to sin. Joseph Smith said the same
> thing
> >> about himself. These men know that they are not born again and not
> yet
> >> saved. The problem is that they have hope that they will be saved
> >> because that is what their religion teaches them. They believe that
> >> because they have been baptized by the proper authority, they will be
> >> saved. This is just like the Pharisees who believed that because
> they
> >> were children of Abraham and circumcised, they would be saved.
* So you ignore the warning of false prophets and allow them access to the
brethren because they is a chance they will be saved-That makes the devils
job a lot easier. He must love this site!
============================================================================
========================
>
> Dean wrote:
> > Here is where we differ the most. You believe they are here
> > to learn. I believe they are here to corrupt-it is their nature.
> > If they were seeking then they would have found- they are not
> > seeing because they do not want to do so. The bread has been
> > put before them and they will not eat-yet they claim to seek
> > bread-You claim they seek bread and still they do not eat.
>
> I don't claim that they seek bread. They are not here to learn or
> convert to some other form of Christianity. Different Mormons have come
> here for different reasons. DaveH seems to appreciate seeing for
> himself what non-Mormon Christians are like. He does not want to just
> take the word of his Mormon church about it. I think you ought to
> commend him for that. I certainly do. However, I think DaveH also is
> entertained by how varied the belief systems are among those outside
> Mormonism. I'm sure to him we all look like one big mess with regards
> to what we believe. We are clearly a mixture of wheat and tares growing
> together, and to someone who thinks their religion is the right
> religion, it can look like something they would best avoid. False
> religions have a way of making people feel safe. That is one reason why
> people are in them, besides the social and family benefits it might
> afford them.
* Different Mormons come to this site because Daveh is here to help
them-they can prepare for us and have no fear of being lead astray-your
site is a tool for Daveh.Do you not see how he guides Blaine? Concerning
what we believe-as least we fight with passion over the truth of the
bible-at least we have that and more.
============================================================================
===============================
>
> Dean wrote:
> > Give me evidence that they are eating God's bread
> > and we can talk-then we have something to work with-
> > and then I am with you and will show you the patience
> > of Job with them to my ability by my measure of faith.
>
> :-) Do you look for evidence of receptivity before you go to the Mormon
> conference to preach? I fail to see why you think someone must show an
> indication of receptivity before we can sow seed into his life. You are
> beginning to sound a lot like Judy now. :-) Hasn't this been her
> position?
*Over 4 years and Daveh still teaches the words of Satan-and he is here to
learn? And you allow this?
============================================================================
==================================
>
> Dean wrote:
> > Our understanding of Gods word will never be perfect-
> > but to teach another way. If one is doing this I am
> > to try and tell them God's truths -up to a point
> > -then I must avoid them! How is this wrong?
>
> Here is what is wrong with it. If we divide from those who are teaching
> something we consider to be wrong, and they actually have some elements
> of truth that we need to hear, then we will be cutting off the source by
> which God might bring greater light to us. Furthermore, it may be that
> by our patience, God will use us to be a light to them and bring them
> into the correction that they need.
* They serve Satan what can they have that we need to hear?Are you saying
that God will send us word to grow from someone who believes we should eat
the fruit and be a God?
============================================================================
=================================
>
> Every cult that I have known instructs their followers to cut off those
> who are not part of their group. Think about that. Now think about
> what the Bible says about false teachers. Does it say to cut them off,
> or does it warn us to beware of them?
* It says to avoid them-beware of them-do not eat with them! You of course
take that to mean hear then ,listen to them ,allow their words among the
brethren-speak with them-love them-help them even thought they say eat the
fruit !
============================================================================
==============================
>
> Now I grant you that there are intimate ways of relationship that ought
> to be cut off. To go to one extreme, I would never marry a Mormon girl.
> I would not marry a girl that was not born again and filled with the
> Holy Ghost. Coming closer to home, I would not house Mormon
> missionaries in my home as they went out everyday proselytizing my
> community. Nevertheless, this is much different than preaching to
> Mormons in public places, and it is much different than writing e-mails
> back and forth with them.
* Then what -pray tell- does it mean to beware of wolves in sheep clothing?
What is Jesus trying to tell us? What is a wolf? I would like you to answer
this not delete it!
============================================================================
=============
>
> Jesus went into the homes of Pharisees and ate with them, even right
> after teaching us this same thing that you teach, the importance of
> having our eye single. Look at it:
* When you are able to bring the dead to life and walk on the sea-then you
can also do as Jesus did with the false teachers:-) Can all those that
read why the fruit is good to eat also do this?
============================================================================
===============================
* The single eye is to walking unto Holiness not allow wolves into the
fold.
============================================================================
====
>
> No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place,
> neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in
> may see the light. The light of the body is the eye: therefore when
> thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when
> thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness. Take heed
> therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness. If thy whole
> body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be
> full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee
> light. And as he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with
> him: and he went in, and sat down to meat. And when the Pharisee saw it,
> he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner. And the Lord
> said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and
> the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. Ye
> fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is
> within also? But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and,
> behold, all things are clean unto you. But woe unto you, Pharisees! for
> ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment
> and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the
> other undone. Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats
> in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. Woe unto you, scribes
> and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and
> the men that walk over them are not aware of them. Then answered one of
> the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us
> also. And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with
> burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens
> with one of your fingers. Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of
> the prophets, and your fathers killed them. Truly ye bear witness that
> ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye
> build their sepulchres. Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will
> send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and
> persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the
> foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the
> blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the
> altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of
> this generation. Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key
> of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering
> in ye hindered. And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and
> the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak
> of many things: Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out
> of his mouth, that they might accuse him. (Luke 11:33-54 KJV)
* And do you not think that Daveh is waiting in wait for me or Kevin to
make a mistake?Do you not think that Jesus was used the pharisee and this
event as a teaching tool to show us what they are so we can avoid them? Did
he not pronounce judgement upon them-and were they not warned to a deeper
judgement? Did he return the next night to dine with them? Lots of
unanswered questions huh?
============================================================================
=============
>
> I quote so much of it so that you can see that this Pharisee and the
> lawyers who also ate with him were not believers. Jesus reviled them
> and rebuked them, just as street preachers do in their preaching. Yet,
> he sat down to eat with them. Please contrast this with the passages
> that tell us not to eat with brothers who are in sin. Judy and I have
> both addressed this with you many times, but you seem unable to
> assimilate this information in the same way that the Mormons cannot
> comprehend the false teachings that we expose in their teachings.
* That can be shot both ways-Both the Mormons and TT fail to heed my
warnings-can I not say the same?
============================================================================
===========
>
> Dean wrote:
> > Then you would have to put Jesus and John in this class of religious
> > bigot. God would also fit you definition of religious bigot.
>
> No, Dean. Jesus spoke to the woman at the well and brought her words of
> life. He did not say in his heart, "she is a Samaritan, so I will have
> nothing to do with her."
* Yes he warned her and she listened -Does Daveh listen? I have been to the
well with him-has he gone and told his brethren to come and listen to us as
the women did?
============================================================================
===========================
>
> Dean wrote:
> > You are the one holding different standard toward Baptist
> > and Mormons. I tell both groups the truth.
>
> It seems to me that you think it is ok for Baptists to be on this list
> but not Mormons. Am I wrong in this perspective?
* Mormons and baptist are not on the same list with God-The baptist teach
not to eat the fruit of sin-the Mormons teach to eat this fruit- Big
difference huh?
>
> Dean wrote:
> > I am told to remove myself from those who teach another
> > gospel after showing the truth-I will do this to all.
>
> Does this mean that you will no longer go to the Mormon convention to
> preach?
* No by not means-that means I will not stay in the presence of a false
teacher no longer then necessary. Those at convention have not yet heard
the words Daveh has.
============================================================================
=============
>
> Where does the Bible teach this attitude? Paul said:
>
> I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not
> altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or
> extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the
> world. (1 Corinthians 5:9-10 KJV)
>
> So Paul clarifies, that the unbelievers we may eat with, but a brother
> of the faith who walks in sin, we should not eat with him.
* A sinning brother claims Jesus while remaining in sin-Doesn't Daveh also
do this?Has he repented yet?
==========================================================================
>
> But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is
> called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a
> railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to
> eat.
> (1 Corinthians 5:11 KJV)
* Would you consider J. Smith an Idol-Do the Mormons not teach He can also
lead one to salvation?
============================================================================
=============
>
> Dean wrote:
> > I can support what I say with the Bible-
> > I don't see you doing so.
>
> I have shared much Bible with you. The problem is that like the
> Mormons, you just don't accept it. We clearly have a different way of
> looking at how intimate e-mail is and whether or not e-mail can be a
> public forum open to everyone. You seem to have the mindset that a
> believer like myself cannot create an open forum using an e-mail list.
* I agree with an open forum but to allow a false prophet in the mist of
the brethern-I don't agree. But I don't at this point think you will hear
me.How can a Christian fulfill the great commission if they must set their
Christianity aside for this site?
============================================================================
=========================
>
> David Miller wrote:
> >> Imagine a Baptist and a Mormon standing next to each other in a park.
> >> They see in the distance a homeless man being beaten and robbed of
> his
> >> food stamps. As the attackers run off, the Baptist is thinking to
> >> himself what he should do, while the Mormon goes to the hurt man,
> puts
> >> him in his car, and takes him home and cares for him until he is
> better.
> >> Which of these two men do you think was walking in the grace of
> Christ?
> >> Do you think the scenario is impossible because a Mormon would never
> act
> >> with this kind of love? Do you think that the Mormon must have some
> >> ulterior selfish motive because he is Mormon and not Baptist?
>
> Dean wrote:
> > Does the Mormon do well for goodness sake or does he say in
> > his heart: "If I help this man I will be a greater God in
> > eternity"? And how would one know this-by their short term
> > words or their long term words? If they have so much
> > goodness/light why do they not speak Jesus Christ
> > (the one of the bible)?
>
> These are good questions, Dean. Men certainly may hold the truth in
> unrighteousness. My point in the story was that I think whether or not
> the do-gooder was a Mormon makes little difference. If we are talking
> about a Baptist or a Mormon, we should look at the situation the same.
> I chose a Mormon for the do-gooder in my story for the same reason that
> Jesus chose a Samaritan as the do-gooder in his story that answered the
> question of who is our neighbor. Just as Jews were more suspicious of a
> Samaritan than a priest or Levi, in the same way I think you are more
> suspicious of a Mormon than a Baptist. You seem to be skeptical to the
> point that it seems that perhaps you cannot imagine a Mormon doing
> anything good. I'm concerned about that attitude and hope you will show
> me that you do not have that attitude.
>
* David all men should be as the Samaritan-the point is they are not-and
when they prove to teach Satan word we are to separate from them.
----------
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