DAVEH: As I pointed out previously, God placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden for a reason.
Judy: Yes He was testing A&E to see if they would obey Him choose what is good. DAVEH: I don't know why you believe that IF you believe Jesus was chosen before the foundation of the world to be our Redeemer. (I assume you do believe Jesus was foreordained well before A&E to be our Savior?) Judy: Yes I do believe that. I also believe that God chose Jacob (the younger) over his brother Esau before they were born because He knew that Jacob would treasure the blessing and Esau would despise it (in his Omniscience). God knew but that didn't change anything other than His speaking it through a prophet. DAVEH: And IMHO, he not only knew Adam would partake of the FF, but he intended him to do so. Judy: What kind of convoluted thinking is this? You are making God responsible for their sin when His Word tells us that God is the Father of light in whom there is no degree of shadow or turning. He can not be tempted with evil, neither does He tempt any man. DAVEH: Not at all. He didn't tempt man with evil. Adam's partaking of the FF was not evil. As I said, it was an important part of God's plan of salvation for us. Without A&E eating the FF.....there would be no salvation. Judy: Adam broke God's law/command and it was evil, God says so and your saying God set him up to sin is also an evil report. You are listening to the wrong voice DAVEH just lilke Eve did in the garden - Satan said "Ye SHALL NOT surely die. God had said they would and they did. DAVEH: The only thing I've quoted to you, Judy.....is Bible. Judy: What you have quoted to me DaveH is your Mormon para phrase of what you believe the Bible to be saying. I know you think Joseph Smith is the one who opened the closed book (described by the prophet Isaiah) but this is also a lie because Joseph Smith's writings contradict the rest of God's Word and the book hs been and still is still closed to those who do not come to the sacrifice God's way. It is He who either opens or closes the understanding. DAVEH: If you disagree with my conclusion, that is OK. I just am very interested in knowing how you (Protestants in general) can accept Jesus' foreordination to be our Savior IF God really intended Adam not to partake of the FF. Judy: To understand that DaveH you would have to accept the fact that God is not like us. His thoughts and ways are so much higher. He is everything we are not and He knows the beginning from the end before it happens. If Adam had not fallen there would be no need of a Savior but Jesus would still be Lord and He would still be holding the worlds together by the Word of His power. DAVEH: It seems to me that (original) sin was attributed to Adam's transgression in post Biblical traditions of the apostate church. OS is something LDS theology considers erroneous doctrine. We believe men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression. That is why Christ's free gift of the (physical) resurrection is given to all men, whether good or bad. Judy: Both ideas are false and unscriptural. Jesus would not have had to shed his blood to become the once and for all sacrifice for sin that was non-existent. Without Adam's fall this would not have been necessary. Yes Jesus died for ALL men however, ALL men will not be resurrected to eternal life in Him; DAVEH: Now you are modifying what I wrote so that it will appear to contradict what you believe. I agree....not all me will be resurrected to eternal life. The bad guys will also be physically resurrected, but will not share his eternal life and love. My point was that ALL will be physically resurrected, both good and bad. Judy: Some will be in heaven with God, others will not. At the last day there will be sheep and there will be goats. Only those who have come to the sacrifice and have deal with their sin issues God's way will be resurrected into eternal life. DAVEH: OK Judy......let me ask again.... Do you believe ALL men will be physically resurrected.....either to eternal life or to eternal damnation? Judy: They will all appear before the judgment seat of Christ and also at the Great White Throne judgment to be accepted or rejected according to what they have done. DAVEH: Do you believe those who are not born again will be punished after this life for the sins their parents may have committed? I ask that to try to understand how Adam's sins transfer to you. Or.....is it just Adam's transgression that transfers, and not his other sins? To me it seems a bit strange that God would hold somebody responsible for another's sins, but I'm looking at it through biased eyes. Judy: Maybe it would be easier to understand DAVEH if you look at the two trees in the garden as trees of wisdom. The tree of life being God's Word and the other tree the word of the adversary. People who represent God are to be oracles of God in this world. The alternative is to be an oracle of/for satan. DAVEH: You suggested God does not tempt man......Did you forget God created both trees? Judy: Is wisdom temporal, something that is created? Judy: It may be more conducive to focus on 'righteousness' and how to receive this gift rather than what everyone thinks about everything. DAVEH: I suspect are many who are so self righteous, they tend to forget about reality. Judy: I'm not talking about self-righteousness because in 'reality' this is non-existent (there is none righteous no not one). I am speaking of the righteousness of Christ which is offered to all who come His way. DAVEH: While I may not be as righteous as some, I do have to wonder why there are those who are so reluctant to consider why God provided us a Savior IF he did not intend for us to need to be Redeemed. Judy: No need to wonder DaveH. Just accept the fact that God's ways are higher than ours and that he is Omniscient which means he knows what will happen before it does and He is always ready. Who do you choose to be an oracle for in this world? DAVEH: The Lord's servants.....his prophets. Judy: Not a good answer DaveH especially if the prophets are the false kind. Why not be an oracle for God by first obeying and then speaking the words of Jesus? -- ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
