"I am YHVH your God and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already completely destroyed. Ever since the days of your ancestors you have scorned my laws and failed to obey them. Now return to me and I will return to you,' says YHVH" Malachi 3:6-7
God has not changed, so what makes anyone think His Law (Torah) has changed? I ask my question again, If you reject God's law then how do you define sin?
Who said anything about rejecting the Old Law (and you are talking about the old law rather than the new law, right?). The Torah is a good definition of what is sin. I know it defines murder, idolatry and the like -- does it define evny, lust, bigotry, seeking your own will, selfishness?
Look Jeff -- law as I believe it is being used by Paul in Romans 2:12-16 is a codified set of standards by which we are judged. We have been talking about 2:12-16. I wonder if you have read the last verse in that chapter: "But he is a Jew (a child of God) who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that which is of the heart -- by the Spirit not the letter, and his praise is not from men but from God."
Same book, same writer, (Ro 7:6) "But now we have been released from The Law
having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."
The "new law" is specifically defined in scripture. Did you know that? Oh yes, grasshopper. It has specfic definition. It is called "the law of faith," "the law of the Spirit," and the "law of love." It is those things by which we are judged today. Definition? Last time I looked, there was pleeeeeeennty of definition for love, faith (conviction eis works) and Spirit.
Secondly, if you reject His law how can you embrace Yeshua? After all who is Yeshua? He is none other than God in the flesh!(John 1:1) It really saddens me to think that people are misled by teachers, preachers, etc. who have been misled by their mentors, who have been misled by their teachers, etc. for nearly 2000 years.
So my approach dates all the way back to the first century. Awesome.
What do you want to bet that "my teaching" on law finds me no less attached to Christ than anyone else --- except a legalist (of course)? If The Law or a codified moral and written code is that by which we are spiritually judged, there is no room form error, is there? Or, maybe, you accept that the Cross forgives our error. In that case, what is the point of Law? It can define and in that way guide. But it cannot give life, only death. Go to the county in which you live and tell them you have been a good boy for. low, these past several months, and you want a reward of some kind. You don't get rewards for obedying the law because that is what you are supppose to do.
It says 35 mph and you drive 35 mph and what do you get --- you get no coffee , I mean no ticket. What do you get --- you get nothing.
As far as God changing? That gets used on me everytime we have a discussion like this. God does not change but he certainly has changed the way He administers his will, hasn't he. I mean, we have the Kings, the prophets, the rule of faith under Abraham, bondage, the Mosaical Law and now the Law of Love. When you argue that "God does not change," my response is "dahhh." We believe exactly the same on that point. You are law bound and I am not -- or do I miss you point?
JD
This is very odd because I know someone will eventually throw Acts 15 at me. So I'll beat you to the punch and ask that you explain Acts 15:21. And while you're at it explain how the Pharisee of Pharisee's who studied at Gamaliel's feet would reject God's Torah when it is so plainly clear in the Bible that Shaul both understood who Yeshua is and worked so hard for the salvation of the Gentiles and the Jews. The very same Paul who not only took a Nazarite vow, but went to the Temple and paid the price for several other Nazirs to fulfill their vows. Shaul did this for what reason? To reject Torah?
Why? I become all things to all men so that by all means I might save some. Again, you are casting the debate in terms of "rejecting" the law rather than fulfilling the law. Fatal error, I asm thinking. (I do that just for you Lance, I am saying0.
Smitty -- out
There ain't nobody gonna convince me that Shaul rejected Torah. His actions
disprove that doctrine!!
Jeff
----- Original Message -----Lets see now, if I'm understanding this John rejects Torah. So if this is true John, What then is sin? From my perspective, if we reject Torah then we quite naturally reject God's law and in rejecting God's Law we therefore have to reject ALL notions of sin. Without Torah, how are we to know what sin is?
From: Terry Clifton
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christians' authority over nature
Jeff Powers wrote:
