Re: [TruthTalk] WHAT IS SIN?

[Lance Muir]

Jt:Judy, Judy, Judy please... stay with what you do best (the misapplication of Scripture). This other stuff could hurt you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: August 21, 2004 15:31 Subject: [TruthTalk] WHAT IS SIN?   jt: Lance you wrote: Of course God has 'changed' (allowing for the limitations of human language). Three things that are New even for God: 1. The Cosmos 2. The Incarnation 3. Resurrected, glorified HUMANITY ascending to the right hand of the Father where He, Jesus, continues to mediate on our behalf. This reflects a dynamic rather than a static understanding of our God.   Are you saying God is the Cosmos which would be pantheism? The incarnation was  reality to God before the foundation fo the world Only humanity who have come to the light (ie Believers) are seated in heavenly places in Christ.     From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lance, God is not the cosmos.  God was, is, and ever will be (nothing changed there).  I know nothing about the “ascent of humanity”; could you give me that scripture please? I do know about Believers seated in heavenly places, however. Izzy     Iz:I ask again: what of the cosmos, Incarnation and, ascent of humanity to the right hand of God.? "I am YHVH your God and I do not change (God)      Of course God has 'changed'.  (Lance)     What on earth (heaven?) has that statement got to do with mine? You are being coy are you not? Will you say back to me what you believe my meaning to have been? I (Lance, speaking for myself) will then answer. Oh, I guess you’d better write the Lance Muir version of scripture, since obviously the one God wrote is incorrect. Izzy     Of course God has 'changed' (allowing for the limitations of human language). Three things that are New even for God: 1. The Cosmos 2. The Incarnation 3. Resurrected, glorified HUMANITY ascending to the right hand of the Father where He, Jesus, continues to mediate on our behalf. This reflects a dynamic rather than a static understanding of our God.   "I am YHVH your God and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already completely destroyed.  Ever since the days of your ancestors you have scorned my laws and failed to obey them.  Now return to me and I will return to you,' says YHVH" Malachi 3:6-7         God has not changed, so what makes anyone think His Law (Torah) has changed?  I ask my question again,  If you reject God's law then how do you define sin?          Secondly, if you reject His law how can you embrace Yeshua?  After all who is Yeshua?  He is none other than God in the flesh!(John 1:1)  It really saddens me to think that people are misled by teachers, preachers, etc. who have been misled by their mentors, who have been misled by their teachers, etc. for nearly 2000 years.         This is very odd because I know someone will eventually throw Acts 15 at me.  So I'll beat you to the punch and ask that you explain Acts 15:21.  And while you're at it explain how the Pharisee of Pharisee's who studied at Gamaliel's feet would reject God's Torah when it is so plainly clear in the Bible that Shaul both understood who Yeshua is and worked so hard for the salvation of the Gentiles and the Jews. The very same Paul who not only took a Nazarite vow, but went to the Temple and paid the price for several other Nazirs to fulfill their vows.  Shaul did this for what reason? To reject Torah?  There ain't nobody gonna convince me that Shaul rejected Torah. His actions disprove that doctrine!! Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christians' authority over nature   Jeff Powers wrote: Lets see now, if I'm understanding this John rejects Torah. So if this is true John, What then is sin?  >From my perspective, if we reject Torah then we quite naturally reject God's law and in rejecting God's Law we therefore have to reject ALL notions of sin.  Without Torah, how are we to know what sin is? ======================================================== Something you might want to consider Jeff.  There was sin and there was a penalty for sin long before Torah.  Mankind left the garden with a knowledge of good and evil.  Sometime later the law came, and after that, the law was fulfilled.  In the meantime, no one was ever able to keep it.  It was meant for a people, for a time, for a purpose.  Those times are over.  Now we live by faith, evidenced by love and obedience (Works). Terry