Love is genderless. I also believe that women should not teach unless
there is no man that is qualified to do so. Deborah was made a judge because
no man was qualified to fill that position. It was supposed to be a slap in
the face for the men of that time. It was God's way of saying if you don't
step up to the plate, I'll put someone else in who will. As for David's
comments, I agree with some of them. I do believe that men have to be more
manlike.
In churches you do see pastors not preaching on a certain subject because
a select few have decided what you can preach about and what you can't. I went
to a church like that. God help anyone who dare make someone feel convicted
about something. Let's just stick to the easy stuff and never grow to the next
level of your faith.
But I don't neccessarily agree that it is the women who are totally
responsible for men not being more manlike. I am sure they have played a part
in that process. Why did the men not stand up? Why did they give in to such a
pressure that they allowed themselves to be backed into a corner? And could
they have possibly be put in that corner by other men?
Paul was a manly man and he speaks of love being gentle and kind, not
jealous etc... in First Corinthians. If men to be more manlike than they need
to start loving properly.
Please do not take this as man bashing on my part. And I don't believe
that all men suffer from the problem that you have discussed. Suzy
> From: "David Miller" <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Judy
wrote:
> Being 'easily offended" happens to both men and
> women
David and has
> nothing to do with feminized conversations
> and
emasculated men. Do love and good manners have
> to be genderized?
> >From whence are the roots of such
> a concept as
this?
>
> If you were a man, you might understand this
better.
> To tell you the
> truth, you are more a man than
many men I have met,
> so this puts you at a
> disadvantage in
considering this question. In
> talking about this to you,
>
I feel kind of like someone making a point to an
> Olympic female
weight
> lifter that women tend to be physically weaker than
>
men. If she is
> stronger than most men, it might not make a
whole
> lot of sense to her.
>
> jt: This morning my car
quit on the highway and so
> did our cell phone; I
> sure wasn't
making like an Olympic female weight
> lifter out there. It was
>
a long way back to the gas station so I prayed for a
> good Samaritan
and
> the Lord sent one - a Ditch Witch man with a working
> cell
phone who said
> he wouldn't like for his wife to be out there on
the
> highway... it's such
> a blessing when God provides.
>
> Historically, our rules of manners have come from
>
women. We invariably
> turn to the female sex for sensitivity
about
> politeness and manners.
> Surely the phrase "Miss
Manners" means a little more
> than "Mr. Manners"
> to
you.
>
> jt: I look more to Jesus than to Miss Manners
for
> sensitivity and
> empathy. He is the one who raised the
status of the
> women of his
> generation by allowing Mary to sit
at his feet and
> learn which was
> unheard of in Judaism - since
He is our example for
> life and godliness
> why would gender be a
big deal?
>
> The problem is that when women determine the
rules
> of etiquette in
> dialogue, we get away from the kind of
dialogue that
> the apostles often
> engaged in and also taught
their disciples to
> engage. The dialogue of men
> were so heated,
that Paul instructed Timothy: 1
> Timothy 2:11-12 (11) Let
> the
woman learn in silence with all subjection. (12)
> But I suffer not
a
> woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man,
> but to
be in
> silence.
>
> jt: I don't understand the above
instruction in the
> same way David. My
> understanding is
that Timothy was pastoring in
> Ephesus and they had a
> problem
there with a type gnosticism where the women
> would receive all
>
the revelations and they would lead the men; this is
> also why he
makes
> the point about the woman being deceived and being
> saved
through
> childbirth.
>
> Isaiah also uses gender to
describe something not
> honoring to God. Isaiah
> 3:12 (12) As
for my people, children are their
> oppressors, and women rule
>
over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause
> thee to err,
and
> destroy the way of thy paths.
>
> jt: Yes it sounds
like chaos when children become
> oppressors and I don't
> believe
women are to rule either.
>
> If apostles and prophets make
gender differences,
> then so can we.
>
> jt: I don't deny
that men and women are different
> David; my point is that
> love
and good manners should be genderless, that is,
> both men and
women
> who are 'in Christ' should be walking in them.
>
>
What I see in our culture is that men have been
> pushed to the back to
be
> quiet. Most churches are filled with more women
> than
men, and many
> church youth groups have more women than men
because
> men are not allowed
> to be men. Men are constantly
rebuked for exercising
> their masculine
> qualities of vigor,
integrity, courage, boldness,
> and ambition. Rather
> than
directing their natural gifts in profitable
> ways, men are
generally
> taught that such virtues are evil. If they stand
up
> and rebuke evil,
> someone tells them to be quiet and stop
being rude.
> If a man uses logic
> to dispel a false belief, he
is told that he is
> losing many of his
> congregation (who happen
to be women and children).
> The mouths of men
> who speak as
men, reproving, rebuking, and
> exhorting, are constantly
> being
stopped.
>
> jt: This is interesting David. I've never
ever seen
> evil rebuked in
> Church circles and I've been in many
of them. In
> fact most evangelical
> Churches that I've been a
part of only allow men in
> leadership and the
> pastors have all
been male. There are a lot of
> women in congregations
>
which is a shame but I always thought it was because
> the men would
not
> take their rightful place as spiritual leader in the
>
home.
>
> This is a major reason that secularism has
taken
> over the Judiciary and
> our educational system. It
is a reason that
> homosexual rights are
> hijacking the
institution of marriage. It is a
> reason that abortion
has
> become so prevalent. Men
> need to be comfortable
being men and they need to
> stand up against the
> atrocities of
our culture.
>
> jt: Now how did we get from the Church to
the
> secular? I agree there is
> a problem but don't
believe the women should be
> blamed for that,
> especially not
for the homosexual problem when the
> RCC with their
> completely
male hierarchy is so full of them. Why
> arn't men comfortable
>
being men? Could it be that their consciences are
> not clear
before the
> Lord?
>
> Maybe Lance can help us out here
with a book he may
> have read called
> "Wild at Heart." I
haven't had time to read it, but
> I have had many
> bring up this
book when I have taught on gender
> differences and the need
> for
men to be comfortable being masculine.
>
> jt: "Wild at heart?"
Sounds like whoever wrote that
> needs to be born
> again and
receive a new heart ...
>
> Peace be with you.
> David
Miller.
>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be
always with grace, seasoned with
> salt, that you may
> know how
you ought to answer every man."
> (Colossians 4:6)
>
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