Re: [TruthTalk] Original Sin

[Judy Taylor]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:05:26 -0700 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: jt: Yes - I agree with you - Jesus was born with a human spirit inside his human body like all humans have.  The difference between him and the rest of us is that he was born with a human spirit that was alive to God (with no breach) whereas ours was dead. Jesus walked in the fullness of the Holy Spirit - We are born void of the Spirit (which is something the world can not receive) but we do receive  "a measure" when we are born again or born of the spirit (and this is when our human spirit passes from death to life).  Any problems?   bt: Yes, big problems. You are making Jesus something other than human when you insist that he was equipped with things in his humanity that we are not in ours (i.e., a spirit that was alive to God whereas ours was dead), and then equip us with something in our humanity that he did not experience in his own person (i.e., a nature subject to the fall).    jt: Do you believe the first Adam was "something other than human" also?  He had a human spirit that was alive to God since he fellowshipped with Him in the cool of the day.  What I am saying is that Jesus had the same human nature as the first Adam (before the fall) - and that he overcame in his personal life the areas where the first Adam fell (during the temptation in the wilderness). Yes Jesus  did experience our fallenness along with every sin you can and cannot imagine during those hours of darkness on the cross and this is the ONLY time he was separated from the Father ever - and this because of us.   Now humanity is a new creation in Christ's resurrection, born from above. And we receive the Holy Spirit if and when we believe the good news of our salvation.    jt: Not "humanity" per se.  Only those who receive Him receive the POWER TO BECOME a son of God.  Just believing won't do much - because even the devils believe and tremble - Also remember Jesus' prayer in John 17? He wasn't praying for the world, only the ones God had given to him and those who would believe through them.   Jesus was alive to the things of God and so are we (because he defeated the powers which kept us in bondage), and if and when we stop believing the lies of this world and its father and believe instead in the good news of our salvation, we are able to respond to our Father in heaven, because he sends us the Spirit of Christ with which to guide us.   jt: We are not born into this world "alive to God" Bill, in fact we are dead in trespasses and sin (see Eph 2)  Jesus was never ever "dead in trespasses and sin" other than during that 3hrs on the cross.  Yes he defeated principalities and powers but there are many who "believe" the good news who are still just as bound by them as they were before they believed.  So why is that?