Another recommended reading:The Orthodox Way - Bishop Kallistos Ware FYI: There is no THE orthodox church or, for that matter any other THE church of.......I'm confident that you can all tease out my meaning.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: April 06, 2005 21:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work > Gee, another heretical sect. > > >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work > >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:15:22 GMT > > > > > >Charles Perry Locke wrote: And, although mormons apparently > >cannot bear the thought that there are some aspects of God that we (humans) > >simply do not understand, there certainly are. > > > > To think otherwise is to make oneself equal with God...and that is what > >Mormons are trying to do with their un-biblical "men-to-gods" heresy. > > > > > > > >BLAINE: I find it very interesting that the Eastern Orthodox Church has > >always without wavering accepted the doctrine of Deification, a doctrine > >almost identical to the revealed religion of Joseph Smith wherein he > >claimed man may become like God, through the atonement of Jesus Christ. > >They claim dervation from, and continuity with, the most ancient of > >Christian traditions. They believe the Western churches have apostatized > >from these original doctrines. > >Important points of comparison between Eastern Orthodox Christianity and > >Mormonism: > >1. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that because of Christ's victory, > >deified humans will receive theri PHYSICAL bodies in a glorius > >resurrection. Mormons believe the same > >2. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe they may participate in the > >"grace, power and glory of God." Mormons believe the same. > >3. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that humans enter the realm of > >infinity, becoming "eternal like God, without losing their humanity" > >Mormons believe the same. > >4. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that even though they may become > >gods, they will never cease to worship God, nor will they somehow replace > >Him as God, because they become gods by grace. Mormons believe the same > > > >Before you write with such condescension, Perry, maybe you should acquaint > >yourself with other beliefs that have come down without interuption from > >early Christian times. They are REVEALING!! > > > >-- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Dave, > > > > Let's be fair here. Private conversations with your comrades, whether > >in > >the temple or without, is a bit different than what the temple endowmwents > >contain. I do not ask you what you pray, or to whom you pray. I do not ask > >you about a personal conversation you had with your bishop, or Blaine, or > >anyone else. Besides, as you have pointed out, the temple endowmwments are > >publicized all over the web and in numerous books. What is private about > >that? > > > > As far as the Trinity. You shall never understand it. The fact that > >there > >is a Trinity is a fact. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity. The > >nature of the Trinity...the way in which the Three are addressed in the > >bible, where all three share the attributes of God, is clear. Yet, we also > >know from scripture that there is only ONE God. There must be a resolution > >to this apparent dilemma. There are basically two...whether the Three are > >of > >the same God, combined in some mystical way that we do not (yet) > >understand...or there are three Gods. Christians, in general, choose the > >first option. Joseph Smith chose the second. The doctrine of the Trinity, > >while the nature of the union is not (cannot be) fully understood this side > >of Heaven, is the ony one that adequately deals with ALL aspects of the > >nature of the Three revealed in the Holy Word of God. All others have to > >abuse ignore some aspect of the text to make it fit their view. Some say > >Christ was not deity, yet the Bible makes it clear that he was. Some make > >them three separate gods, yet the scripture makes it clear that there is > >only one God. Some make them all separate manifestations (appearances) of > >the one God, yet they can appear separately at separate times and interact > >with one another. A truly mystical union. It has been called a "hypostatic > >union", but I am not even sure what that means, nor do I think it matters. > > > > Some argue that since the word "Trinity" is not in the bible, there is > >no > >such thing. The word "Trinity" is the word used to represent the mystical > >union of the Three as a single God. Because we can't understand it's very > >nature does not mean that it does not exist. Life is full of such > >mysteries...things that we know, but cannot explain or fully understand. > > > > Besides, I do not find any of the Mormon characters from the novel > >called > >"The Book of Mormon" mentioned in the Bible. Nor do I find any of the > >Mormon > >temple endowments described in the Bible doctrine (although I do see them > >in handbooks on Masonic rites). For that matter, I do not find the mormon > >jesus, mormon satan, or mormon god in the Bible, either. In spite of this, > >you would argue that they are there. > > > > You statement "it seems the T-Doctrine was politically contrived to > >actually mystify the Trinity in an effort to bring a lot of diverse beliefs > >under one theological umbrella" just sounds like anti-christian crap. What > >is your reference for that statement? Is it yours, or is it standard Mormon > >patter? > > > > The Trinity doctrine is merely man's best attempt at resolving an > >apparent paradox in the Bible...and as I have stated...it does more justice > >to the text than any other explanation. And, although mormons apparently > >cannot bear the thought that there are some aspects of God that we (humans) > >simply do not understand, there certainly are. > > > > To think otherwise is to make oneself equal with God...and that is what > >Mormons are trying to do with their un-biblical "men-to-gods" heresy. They > >have bitten from the proverbial forbidden fruit...they have swallowed > >Satan's original lie, and are attempting to convince others that it is > >true, > >as Satan did with Eve, and as Eve did with Adam in the Garden. When one > >sins, there are three ways to absolve the guilt. Convince others to join > >the > >sin (misery loves company), convince others the sin is not a sin (moral > >relativism), or drop to one's knees before a merciful and forgiving God, > >confess their sin, and ask for forgiveness. (The first two only delay the > >penalty...not remove it). > > > > It is time for the entire body of Mormons to cease from their sin, > >confess, and ask for forgiveness. The Worldwide Church of God did this a > >few > >years back under the inspired and wise leadership of Edward Tkatch...I am > >sure it can happen within the Mormon church as well, with the help of the > >Holy Spirit and a handful of spirit filled and inspired individuals in the > >church. When that occurs, Dave, be sure you are on the side of the Holy > >Spirit. > > > >Perry > > > > >From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work > > >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 07:24:46 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > >Charles Perry Locke wrote: > > > > > >>Dave,thanks for your answers. > > > > > >DAVEH: You are welcome, Perry. > > > > > >> > > >> So, what I got from this conversation is that it is a mystery whether > > >>mormon women are raised as spirits or F&B, and it is a mystery whether > > >>exalted men-gods have multiple wives, and it is a mystery how flesh and > > >>bones men-gods produce spiritual offspring with a flesh and bones wife > >or > > >>spiritual wife, whichever is the case. > > > > > >DAVEH: I don't consider it a mystery as much as I do something that is > >not > > >explicitly explained by Scripture. > > > > > >> > > >> We also established that you and the mormon satan and the mormon > >jesus > > >>(and all humans, in the mormon view) are spirit brothers. Full brothers, > > >>you say, even though it is a mystery as to whether they have the same > > >>mother, which is deduced from the fact that it is a mystery whether > > >>exalted men-gods can have more than one wife. > > >> > > >> Thanks. I think I understant now. These things are a mystery to the > > >>mormons, just like the Trinity is a mystery to Christians. We know it is > > >>so, > > > > > >DAVEH: And that seems to be the difference between us, Perry. You > > >believe in a mystery, whereas the stuff you consider mysteries in > >Mormonism > > >are not doctrines we consider to be true....they are simply things that > > >some speculate about rather than being doctrine. The Trinity Doctrine on > > >the other hand is a mystery that is believed by most Protestants, as I > >see > > >it. And...apparently you believe it as well (correct me if I'm wrong) > >even > > >though it is a mystery to you. > > > > > >>but really don't understand in our earthly view of things how it is so. > > > > > >DAVEH: What is it that you learn from the T-Doctrine, Perry? And.....Why > > >does it exist? And finally....why do you accept/believe it if it is a > > >mystery to you? > > > > > > While you endeavor to tie both the theorys about that nature of > >exalted > > >beings to the mystery of the Trinity, it is apples and oranges. > > >>From my perspective, Scripture tells us a lot about the nature of the > > >Trinity....so, there is little reason for it to be a mystery. Yet it > >seems > > >the T-Doctrine was politically contrived to actually mystify the Trinity > >in > > >an effort to bring a lot of diverse beliefs under one theological > >umbrella. > > > > > > So Perry......after reading the T-Doctrine, do you think you > >understand > > >the nature of the Trinity better than simply reading the Bible, or does > >it > > >make the nature of the Trinity more vague? > > > > > >> > > >> And, I already knew that the Bible did not support the mormon ideas > >we > > >>have been discussing before you admitted it...I just wanted to know if > >YOU > > >>thought it did...and you confirmed that it does not. > > >> > > >>And, I am not "just itching to find out what Mormons would say in > > >>private". Have I ever asked you about your private converations with > >your > > >>comrades in faith? > > > > > >DAVEH: Yes......if I remember correctly, you wanted to know about what > >we > > >talk about in the Temple. > > > > > >>If I haven't, then please don't make assumptions about what I am itching > > >>to find out. Thanks. > > >> > > >>Perry > > >> > > >>>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >>>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >>>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work > > >>>Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 00:07:32 -0700 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Charles Perry Locke wrote: > > >>> > > >>>>Dave, I am honest with my responses to you. It is not hypocritical for > > >>>>me to ask for a prooftext. If you asked me the wife/dog question I > >would > > >>>>answer "neither...next question". That is a valid answer, and gives > >the > > >>>>correct response. You answered that you do not know of any Mormon > > >>>>position with respect to my question. That is a fair answer. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: I'm curious.......why did you ask it a second time? > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>I formulated these questions based on my understanding of Mormon > >beliefs > > >>>>which, you have pointed out before, do not always align with what > > >>>>mormons really beleive. So, let me frame my questions in a different > > >>>>light, and maybe I will get an answer. (I really do not expect long > > >>>>answers on these...but I also would not like to get the run-around). > > >>>> > > >>>>1. Is it true that some mormon men will be (or have been) exalted to > > >>>>godhood, and that in this state they have flesh and bones? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Yes...that is LDS theology. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>2. Is it true that these exalted mormon men-gods can (or may choose > >to) > > >>>>marry multiple wives? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Some LDS folks have speculated such, but I do not recall any > > >>>specific passages from the Standard Works to support that theory. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>3. As far as you know is there a Mormon doctrine, teaching, or belief > >on > > >>>>whether Mormon women are raised as spirits or as beings with flesh and > > >>>>bones like the men-gods are? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: That is a bit confusing, Perry.....But the next question is a > >bit > > >>>clearer. > > >>> > > >>>>I am talking about the mormon women that become married to exalted > > >>>>Mormon men-gods. Are they flesh and bones, or spirit? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Both. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>(I think this is where we diverged on the last go-round. I think this > >is > > >>>>what you do not know, but it really does not affect the outcome of my > > >>>>questioning. It only decides which question should be asked in the > > >>>>end...but I will ask both below, so that regardless of the answer (or > > >>>>lack of an answer) you will see at what I was getting.) > > >>>> > > >>>>4. Do the mormon men-gods have sex with their multiple wives > >(regardless > > >>>>of their nature...spirit or F&B) to produce offspring? (If you do not > > >>>>call it sex, or do not know the method, then forget that term...do > >they > > >>>>somehow produce offspring with their multipl wives?) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: I know of nothing in the Standard Works that addresses your > > >>>question. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>5. Are these offspring spiritual in nature, or of flesh and bones? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: If I understand the nature of your question correctly (and now > >it > > >>>makes a bit more sense to me than the way you put it before), I would > > >>>presume (speculation, if you will) that they would be spirit beings > > >>>because one gains the flesh and bone physical (as we know it) body by > > >>>being born into mortality. Again....I do not think this is covered in > > >>>the Standard Works. > > >>> > > >>>>[I believe the answer here is "spiritual"...correct me if I am wrong. > > >>>>Blaine has confirmed this before on more than one occasion, and you > >may > > >>>>have, too.] > > >>>> > > >>>>6. Is it true that you (and in the Mormon view, all humans) were once > > >>>>such a spirit child of an exalted man-god and one > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Yes, that is doctrinal as I understand it. > > >>> > > >>>>of his wives? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: That is not addressed in the Standard Works. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>7. Is it true that the mormon jesus was such a spirit child, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Yes, as I understand it. > > >>> > > >>>>and is your (full or half) brother? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Full brother, but I suppose that could be construed as > > >>>speculation as well. We sometimes refer to him as our Elder Brother, > >as > > >>>he was firstborn of the spirits. > > >>> > > >>>>8. Is it true that the mormon satan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Interesting way to put that, Perry......May I suggest a better > > >>>way of stating such would be to say....*.the Mormon teaching about > > >>>Satan*..... > > >>> > > >>>>was also such a spirit child > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Yes. > > >>> > > >>>>and is your and jesus' (and in the mormon view, all humans') half > > >>>>brother (maybe full brother if any of you had the same mother!)? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: We consider both Jesus and Lucifer (as well as ourselves) to be > > >>>spirit creations of our Heavenly Father. While Jesus is our Elder > > >>>Brother to whom we are eternally indebted, Satan is a fallen brother > >who > > >>>has chosen to fight against the Lord, and has subsequently been cast > >out > > >>>of heaven. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>Having gotten this far, let me state my two questions based on the > > >>>>answers to the questions above. One applies to the case where these > > >>>>wives are F&B, the other if they are spirits: > > >>>> > > >>>>A. (Spitual wife case): If an exalted god-man has a spiritual wife > >with > > >>>>whom he produces spiritual offspring, of which you were once an > >example, > > >>>>it seems odd to me that a flesh and bones exalted man could produce > > >>>>spiritual offspring with a spiritual wife. Did he contribute no flesh > > >>>>and bones material to the process? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Not applicable, if I understand the premise correctly. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>B. (Flesh and bones wife case): If an exalted god-man has a flesh and > > >>>>bones wife with whom he produces spiritual offspring, of which you > >were > > >>>>once an example, it seems odd to me that a flesh and bones exalted man > > >>>>could produce spiritual offspring with a flesh and bones wife. Did > >they > > >>>>not both contribute flesh and bones material to the process? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: That question is not directly addressed by LDS theology as far > >as > > >>>I know. However, there is certainly some clues/evidence that lends > > >>>itself to speculation. If I was chatting with another LDS person like > > >>>Blaine, it would be very easy to speculate about it without getting > > >>>either of our noses bent out of shape. We could draw some thoughtful > > >>>conclusions in the end, but it would still be speculation, > > >>> > > >>> Since I know you are just itching to find out what Mormons would > >say > > >>>in private, let me give you a primer without going into all the > >details. > > >>> As I understand it, spirit matter is not some /ethereal nothing/, but > > >>>is still a physical material that is just more /refined /(if that is > >the > > >>>proper word for it) than the physical matter we think of in the world > >in > > >>>which we live. Furthermore, the exalted body of flesh and bones you (I > > >>>assume) and I believe Jesus now is comprises is not of the same nature > >as > > >>>the physical body that we experience in mortality. As I'm sure you > >know, > > >>>our mortal bodies are composed of flesh and blood (and spirit), and are > > >>>not able to walk through walls as did Jesus' resurrected body of flesh > > >>>and bone. Do you agree with me so far, Perry? > > >>> > > >>> Hence.....You seem to want to draw conclusions as to what will/can > > >>>happen with exalted bodies based on your experience with mortal bodies. > > >>>Not only is doing so illogical, but it can lead to inaccurate > > >>>conclusions. So....in the absence of Scriptural commentary, any such > > >>>speculation is theological risky. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>These two questions are what I was getting at. To me they are > > >>>>paradoxical...to you it is a mystery...questions for which the mormons > > >>>>have no answer. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: ??? When did I say I did not have an answer, Perry? The > > >>>question is whether the answer can be based on doctrinal support of the > > >>>Standard Works (you specifically asked for Biblical evidence) or > >whether > > >>>the answer is based on speculation. Most (though not all, as I > > >>>stipulated about the F&B nature of an exalted being) of the questions > >you > > >>>posed were only answerable by speculation. > > >>> > > >>>>You believe something happens (exalted god-men with possibly multiple > > >>>>wives have spiritual babies)...you don't know exactly what or how it > > >>>>happens...a true Mormon mystery. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: I think I've said this before, Perry.....I'm not a poster child > > >>>for the Church. Nor am I the smartest Mormon boy in the LDS Church. > > >>>Most of the questions you posed only seem like a mystery to you because > > >>>they are not addressed by Scripture. And when you start speculating > > >>>about the possible answers, your preconceived notions send you off on a > > >>>tangent that is far removed from reality of what Mormons believe. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>I will forego asking for a prooftext since the Bible will not > > >>>>substantiate any of this. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: Ohhhhhh....I guess you must have read my replies that said the > > >>>same thing, eh. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>As for calling your bishop...I was seeking a referral > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: ??? Referral for what? Do you think the Bishop is a Bishop > > >>>because he is doctrinally smarter than others in the congregation? > > >>> > > >>>>...which I much prefer to cold-calling. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>And, since we both know you, it would give us some common ground on > > >>>>which to strike up a conversation :-) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>DAVEH: What is it you want to know from a Bishop that you don't think > >I > > >>>can explain, Perry? > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>Perry > > >>>> > > >>>>>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>>>>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >>>>>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >>>>>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work > > >>>>>Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:29:26 -0700 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Charles Perry Locke wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>Dave, I do not want to lampoon you...I want to lampoon your belief > > >>>>>>system. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>DAVEH: Ahhhhhh....a minor distinction. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>My wanting a prooftext is not hypocritical... > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>DAVEH: Really? Asking such a leading question of me in that manner > >is > > >>>>>a very pointed attack, as I see it. If I were to answer with a > > >>>>>Biblical quote, you could then accurately accuse me of prooftexting, > > >>>>>because that is what you asked for....a prooftext. First you accuse > >me > > >>>>>of such, then to affirm your assertions, you request me to supply a > > >>>>>prooftext. To me that seems hypocritical. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> What if I asked you whether you prefer to beat your dog more than > > >>>>>your wife? That would be a similar leading question. Do you want to > > >>>>>be thought of as a dog beater....or....a wife beater? It would all > >be > > >>>>>speculation that produces a false conclusion, would it not? That's > >why > > >>>>>leading questions are not allowed in a court of law. Speculation > > >>>>>presented in such a manner often times leads to false conclusions. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>I believe that the Mormon view of this is heretical and that there > >is > > >>>>>>no biblical support for this position, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>DAVEH? Mormon view??? Other than the stipulation of God having a > > >>>>>body of flesh and bone (which I've discussed in length > >previously...and > > >>>>>will do so again if you wish), there is no Mormon view of what you > > >>>>>asked. As I said....it is all (excepting God having flesh and bones) > > >>>>>pure speculation. I know of no Scripture or LDS teachings that > >answer > > >>>>>the questions you posed. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>so any scripture you quote would be a prooftext. I want to know what > > >>>>>>prooftexts the Mormons use to substantiate their beliefs on this. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>In the past I have been admonished by you: "if you want to know what > > >>>>>>mormons beleive, ask a mormon". > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>DAVEH: And I've told you. To my knowledge, the LDS Church has no > > >>>>>doctrines about the questions you've brought up. All I've ever heard > > >>>>>discussed about such matters has been purely a matter of speculation. > > >>>>>Now Perry....you've asked me, and I've told you. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>That is what I am doing...giving you an opportunity to set me > >straight > > >>>>>>on your beliefs > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>DAVEH: FTR.......I repeat. I have no doctrinal beliefs about the > > >>>>>questions you asked, excepting the exaltation and F&B attributes of > > >>>>>God. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>before I repeat them...and now you admonish me for having an active > > >>>>>>imagination. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>Maybe Blaine will help us out on this one. Or, you can give me your > > >>>>>>bishop's phone number and I'll call him and ask. Yes, I will say > >that > > >>>>>>you referred me. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>DAVEH: ??? For what purpose do you want to talk to my Bishop? You > > >>>>>live in Orange County (I think), Perry. There must be one or two > >down > > >>>>>there. :-) Just pick up a phone book and let your fingers do > >the > > >>>>>walking if you want to speak to an LDS Bishop. I suspect he'll > >affirm > > >>>>>what I've just told you. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>I ask these questions because they seem to pose a contradiction > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>DAVEH: It is meaningless contradiction if it is speculation. I > >can > > >>>>>speculate that you would rather beat your dog than your wife....but I > > >>>>>don't waste my time. Why would you? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>...that men of flesh and bones and women of flesh and bones produce > > >>>>>>spirit babies...or that men of fleash and bones conjugate with > > >>>>>>spiritual women and produce spirit offspring. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>DAVEH: Like I said....you certainly have an active imagination, > > >>>>>Perry. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>Perry > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>>>>>>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >>>>>>>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work > > >>>>>>>Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:07:00 -0700 > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>DAVEH: My, you do have an active imagination, Perry. Except for > >the > > >>>>>>>belief that God is an exalted being that has a physical body of > >flesh > > >>>>>>>and bone (that houses a spiritual body), which is taught by LDS > > >>>>>>>theology....the rest that you've mentioned below is pure > >speculation > > >>>>>>>and not supported by any Scripture of which I'm aware. Blaine is a > > >>>>>>>bit smarter than me though....perhaps he knows something I don't. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> BTW........For a guy who previously criticized me several times > > >>>>>>>for offering *prooftexts from the bible*, now you are requesting > > >>>>>>>them?!?!?! Hmmmmm.....seems rather hypocritical to me, Perry. Do > > >>>>>>>you really want to know what I believe, and what I believe > >Scripture > > >>>>>>>teaches, Perry.....or do you just want to lampoon me? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>Charles Perry Locke wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>Dave (and Blaine if you are still around), > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I have been wondering this for a few days, and need you help to > > >>>>>>>>understand it. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> The mormon god is an exalted man, of flesh and bones, right? > >And, > > >>>>>>>>he has multiple (would you say a thousand or so?) spiritual wives, > > >>>>>>>>right? And, he has sex with them (or did in the past) to produce > > >>>>>>>>spirit babies, right? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> May I assume, then, that men who have become gods, yet are > >still > > >>>>>>>>flesh and bones, as you say the mormon god is, can have sex with > > >>>>>>>>spiritual wives? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Or, are these wives exalted women of flesh and bones, too? If > > >>>>>>>>they were mortal men and women who became exalted, and are of > >flesh > > >>>>>>>>and bones, how do they have spiritual babies? Why do they not have > > >>>>>>>>flesh and bone babies? Are there any mormon prooftexts from the > > >>>>>>>>bible that support this? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>Thanks. Inquiring minds want to know. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>Perry > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>> > > > > > >-- > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >Dave Hansen > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >http://www.langlitz.com > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >If you wish to receive > > >things I find interesting, > > >I maintain six email lists... > > >JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, > > >STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. > > > > > > > > >---------- > > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > >http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > >---------- > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > >http://www.InnGlory.org > > > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > >---------- > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > >http://www.InnGlory.org > > > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. 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