Charles Perry Locke wrote:
No, but I am quickly becoming a Davophobe!
I do not have to accept labels that do not describe me accurately.
Besides, just because mormons coin a word that is a misnomer does not
give it any authority in the language.
DAVEH: Your logic is a bit flawed there, Perry. If LDS folks coined
a word that is useful for their needs, then why would you be bothered
about what it means to them?
Just like 'gentile'. You would consider me a gentile, but
not yourself. Hogwash. You are as much a gentile as any non-jew.
Mormons have redefined that word. Coincidentally, no one in the world
accepts that definition for gentile except the misinformed.
DAVEH: Yes, that is a word we've changed to meet our own needs. When
we use it, we are not trying to confuse or mislead non-LDS folks. It
is just a definition that works well for us.
They have redefined MANY words to fit their own intent.
DAVEH: I agree. We do use many words to describe things that are
somewhat foreign to non-LDS folks. Like I said, they meet our needs
just as does anti-Mormon. The difference is that we did not redefine
anti-Mormon. We simply coined the term to describe folks like you, and
as long as it meets that need....we will continue to use it as such.
To redefine it is not necessary for us. The root word works just fine.
That does not give ANY of those meanings any authority in
the language.
DAVEH: Anti-Mormon does have meaning in our language. That's why we
use it.
Call me what you want, Dave. But calling me anti-mormon
now that you know that I am not against mormons
DAVEH: How can you say that after referring to me as a sly ol'
mormon boy, Perry??? You are just lucky the moderator has a beam
in his eye! ;-)
wil be considered an ad-hom attack from you.
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree with you, Perry. Why would it be an
ad-hom attack? It simply describes you as you are. However, I am
curious as to how other TTers see it. Do any TTers consider Perry to
be an anti-Mormon as it has been defined by Mormons?
Perry
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Is Perry an Anti-Mormon?
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:43:44 -0700
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave,
Here is the Google definition you sent.
"Anti-Mormonism is an overt opposition to Mormonism, often
specifically to Mormonism's largest and most prominent sect, The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("LDS Church"; see also Mormon).
*Anti-Mormon activities range from reasoned arguments (often references
to Archeology or the Bible) to scathing expos s and public protests" *
Read the first sentence. This is what I have been saying all along.
"Anti-Mormonism is an overt opposition to Mormonism".
DAVEH: I've never disputed that, Perry.
"Anti-mormon" is a misnomer when applied to me. Now, if I was
against, or hated, or wished ill upon MORMONS, then I would consider
myself anti-mormon, but I am not, and I do not have to accept that
label if it does not appliy to me.
DAVEH: Apparently you did not read the second half of the definition,
Perry.......
*Anti-Mormon activities range from reasoned arguments (often references
to Archeology or the Bible) to scathing expos s and public protests" *
.......Seems to me that you meet that definition, Perry. Do you
disagree?
Example: Do you agree with the homosexual lifestyle? That it is
wholesome and acceptable? If not, you may be a HOMOPHOBE! Do you fear
homosexuality? Probably not, even though you may not agree with the
lifestyle. A Phobia ia an irrational fear of something, in this case
homosexuals. You see, it is a misnomer.
DAVEH: Anti-Mormon as defined by LDS folks is not a misnomer when
applied to you. It accurately describes what you are in our eyes, and
by our definition. You simply meet the definition of anti-Mormon as
LDS folks have coined it. Would you like me to provide you more
definitions to support the ones I've already posted?
It's purpose is to cast those that disagree
with that lifestyle into a castigated group. I do not agree with the
homosexual lifestyle, but I am not a homophobe any more than I am an
anti-mormon. I am anti-mormonism, not anti-mormon.
Do you understand the difference? Do you use the word "homophobe" to
label those who do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle? Are you a
homophobe? Don't accept labels that mis-represent your beliefs, David.
You can continue to call me anti-mormon if you wish, but you are
labeling me incorrectly when you do so.
DAVEH: That is simply nonsense, Perry. I've given you the
definition. Why do you persist in trying to change the definition?
Are you a mormo-phobe? :-)
If you do so, I will know it is
intentionally to antagonize me with a lebel that does not apply.
DAVEH: Your refusal to acknowledge an accurate definition is very
interesting. FTR....I am not trying to intentionally antagonize you,
and the label does apply. If anything, I'm trying to keep you from
self deceiving yourself.
But, if you want to say I am
anti-mormonism, then you will be accurate. What is it to you to put 3
letters at the end to make it "ism"?
DAVEH: LDS folks have been using the anti-Mormon terms for a very
long time (well before you were born). Interestingly, I don't
remember much (if anything) ever being said in the past by LDS folks
using the term anti-Mormonism. I don't think it is normally used by
LDS folks, as far as I can recall. So...to be accurate, again from an
LDS standpoint, you meet our definition of anti-Mormon.
Is is the difference between trying to
antagonize the sutuation v. being accurate. You choose.
DAVEH: I'm sorry if you feel the truth antagonizes you, Perry. I am
also sorry you feel I am trying to antagonize you by staying true to
the definition of anti-Mormon. I think I've tried to maintain an
amicable and respectable relationship with you....a guy who has
previously described me as a *sly ol' mormon boy*, have you not? If
anything was said in an effort to inflame, I would think that
qualifies. Yet I am not complaining, Perry. I recognize that is the
way you perceive me, and if that is what you truly believe....that is
your prerogative. But if you think I use the term to describe you is
inflammatory, you are wrong. It is a term that accurately describes
you.
Even if we were to use your definition of anti-Mormon.....would not
your use of *sly ol' mormon boy *pretty well convince anybody following
this discussion that you accurately qualify as an an anti-Mormon as
*you*'ve defined it? If so, why are you so critical of me recognizing
you as you portray yourself?
And yes, you did tell me that mormons
coined the term "anti-mormon" for those that are against mormonism.
That is no different than the homosexuals coining the term "homophobe"
to describe those that disagree with their lifestyle. It's purpose is
not to be accurate...it is to inflame (so to speak).
DAVEH: Once again, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion,
Perry.
Perry
From: Dave Hansen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:32:34 -0700
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave,
And who defined "anti-mormon" to mean "anti-mormonsim"? You said the
mormons did.
DAVEH: I did??? Are you sure about that, Perry? I don't recall
saying such, but it is pretty synonymous, IMO. Have you ever googled
*DEFINE ANTI-MORMON*?
<http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3AAnti-Mormon&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&biw=>
That is no different than any other
word they have redefined for their own purposes.
DAVEH: From the google definition, it appears you are the one trying
to redefine it, Perry. Why does it bother you that as an
anti-Mormonism, you also meet the definition of anti-Mormon???
Perry
From: Dave Hansen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:43:35 -0700
*
This is the problem with the dual meanings that mormons assign to
words...they don't mean what they used to mean. So, we can talk all day
with them about soiritual matters and we think that they are in
agreement with us, when really the words mean something different to
them. Like the Queen of Hearts said, "When I use a word it means
exactly what I want it to mean!" *
DAVEH: I have chatted with DavidM enough to know what he believes (or
should I say doesn't believe) about the pre-mortal existence of our
spirits, just as he explained to you in a parallel post today Perry.
But I do find it amusing that you continue to criticize Mormons for
having dual meanings when you do the same thing with the term
*anti-Mormon.*
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
> DAVEH wrote:
> May I presume you believe free agency existed in the pre-mortal
existence?
DavidM responded: Yes.
Perry cautioned:
David, be careful here. When a mormon says "pre-mortal existence" I
believe they mean a little more than you may know. To the mormon I
believe that to say "pre-mortal existence" refers to the existence of
jesus, satan, you, me, and all other humans in a pre-mortal spiritual
state as spiritual siblings, whereas, I believe that you may think of
the premortal state as being prior to the time Adam was created.
Essentially, you just agreed with the *sly ol' mormon boy *that prior
to your being born into a body (pre-mortal state), you believe you had
free agency, along with satan, jesus, and all of your myriad spiritual
siblings. Is that what you believe?
*
This is the problem with the dual meanings that mormons assign to
words...they don't mean what they used to mean. So, we can talk all day
with them about soiritual matters and we think that they are in
agreement with us, when really the words mean something different to
them. Like the Queen of Hearts said, "When I use a word it means
exactly what I want it to mean!" *
Perry
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