Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[Hiram Page] obtained a stone through which he received some spurious revelations. ... So Hiram Page decided to settle the question as to where Zion was to be built through his magical stone....Oliver Cowdery and the Whitmer family were deceived by the false declarations of Hiram Page. "More Remarkable Stories of How We Got the Revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants,Barrett" quoted in Tanner 1968, 6
Brother Hiram Page had in his possession a certain stone, by which he had obtained certain 'revelations' concerning the upbuilding of Zion, the order of the Church, etc., all of which were entirely at variance with the order of God's house.... The Whitmer family and Oliver Cowdery, were believing much in the things set forth by this stone... (Smith 1902, 1:109-110)
So according to Joe, when Oliver Cowdery and the Whitmer family believed his claim to receive revelations from his seer stone they were people full of faith, but when they believed revelations from Hiram Page's stone they were credulous and deceived.
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:On pages 111-112 we find verses 1-14 of DC 29. What does D&C 29 have to do with this?I do not see what context or verse to which you refer.There are 50 total verses in this one!Since we were talking about SEER Stones maybe you refer to the top of page 111 where we find D&C 28 verse 11 http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/2811) And again, thou shalt take thy brother, Hiram Page, between him and thee alone, and tell him that those things which he hath written from that bstone are not of me and that Satan deceiveth him;When we check the note 11b we find:We Find : enchanter - familiar spirits - evil spirits - soothsayers - divination - astrologers - sorcerers - witchcraftsWhat is the difference between Pages Stone & Joes? What is it that shows that Page's was of Satan & Joe's was of god? Why is Page's Sorcery & Witchcraft & not Joe's?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: Sorry Kevin, as usual, you have either been reading the wrong stuff, or you are making this up as you go along, trying to build a case. Joseph Smith had the Urim &Thummim restored to him in July, 1828. Using it, he received a new revelation reprimanding him for allowing Martin Harris to have the 116 page manuscript and telling him the designs of God could not be frustrated. The U&T was again taken from him, but later restored after a period of probation. Using it, he then received a revelation telling him 1) of the evil intentions of those who stole the manuscript, and 2) that he was not to re-translate the same portion of the plates as before, but was to translate from a different section of the plates covering the same time period. (A Comprehensive History of the Church, B.H. Roberts, Vol 1, pages 111-112)In a message dated 7/28/2005 11:26:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The angel took them away from Joe because he LOST 116 pages of God's word, they were NOT RESTORED in the "restoration"!
How was it that the "God" of Mormonism could be FRUSTRATED in his purpose of translation?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 7/27/2005 6:39:19 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Urim and ThummimWas just a SEER STONE as J Fielding Smith said
Blainer: The seer stone was used in place of the urim and thummim, but was not actually such. It had similar powers, however. The urim and thummim was a pair of stones, primarily, set in a rim like a pair of eye-glasses. See: Ex. 28:30; Lev. 8:8; Deut 33:88
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