The post below is from a conversation I am having with a gay Christian. I will not be calling him names anytime soon. Patient dialogue is the only avenue open.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:22:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] an argument from the gay community for homosecuality
PERVERT ALERT! Who were the other PERVERTS? "It is often overlooked and even outrightly denied that some of the heroes in the Bible were themselves homosexual." Can you believe the Audacity of some to OUT-right deny the above statement? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In case you were curious, here is a rather well stated argument for > homosexuality. > Enjoy. > > JD > > > > The Bible has often been used as a weapon to condemn homosexuality as > sinful or immoral. It is often overlooked and even outrightly denied that some> of the heroes in the Bible were themselves homosexual. The story of Jonathan> and David > is one of the more obvious cases. > > > > For the sake of simplicity, I'll let the Bible itself unfold most of > the story. > > > > After David's heroic victory over the Philistine giant, Goliath, in 1 > Samual, > Chapter 17, David meets Jonathan for the first time. > > > > 1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, > that the > soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved > him as his > own soul. 2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more > home to his > father's house. 3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he > loved him > as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was > upon him, > and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his > bow, and > to his girdle. 1 Samuel 18: 1-4 > > > > Their souls are knit together, they love each other so much that they > made a > covenant with each other, and Jonathan, son of the King, strips > before David, > who is much lower in rank and status. > > > > In the next passages, David's popularity and military achievements > are advanced, > and King Saul starts getting jealous of all the attention being paid > to David. > In order to trap him, Saul makes David his son-in-law by giving him > his > daughter, Michal, to wed. > > > > Some people may stop right here and say that if David married Michal, > it's proof > that he didn't have a homosexual relationship with Jonathan. There > are several > flaws to this argument. First, their marriage was probably only > political. Saul > offers his daughter's hand in marriage only as part of a greater plot > to get at > David. And while it was said that Michal loved David, the Bible never > says that > he loved her back. Also, we know from other ancient cultures such as > the Greeks > and even the Philistines, that heterosexual marriages weren't > necessarily > exclusive. It's very possible that David could have been bisexual. > > > > In 1 Samuel 19, Saul tries to kill David, and David eventually flees > in 1 Samuel > 20. > > > > 1 And David fled from Naioth in Ramah, and came and said before > Jonathan, What > have I done? what is mine iniquity? and what is my sin before thy > father, that > he seeketh my life? 2 And he said unto him, God forbid; thou shalt > not die: > behold, my father will do nothing either great or small, but that he > will shew > it me: and why should my father hide this thing from me? it is not > so. 3 And > David sware moreover, and said, Thy father certainly knoweth that I > have found > grace in thine eyes; and he saith, Let not Jonathan know this, lest > he be > grieved: but truly as the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, there > is but a > step between me and death. 4 Then said Jonathan unto David, > Whatsoever thy soul > desireth, I will even do it for thee. 1 Samuel 20: 3-4 > > > > David and Jonathan continue talking about what to do about Jonathan's > father. > Then they part ways so Jonathan can go somewhere safe. Again they > make a > covenant with each other, and swear their love for each other. > Jonathan loved > David "as he loved his own soul". > > > > 16 So Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, Let > the LORD > even require it at the hand of David's enemies. 17 And Jonathan > caused David to > swear again, because he loved him: for he loved him as he loved his > own soul. 1 > Samuel 20: 16-17 > > > > In the next passages, they plan to meet again so that Jonathan can > let David > know whether he should come back safe from Saul, or whether he should > go away. > And Jonathan talks to his father. Saul tells Jonathan that he is > confused in his > love for David. He also says that as long as David is around, > Jonathan won't > establish his lineage or kingdom. This certainly has all the elements > of a > coming out story. > > > > 30 Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto > him, Thou > son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast > chosen the > son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy > mother's > nakedness? 31 For as long as the son of Jesse liveth upon the ground, > thou shalt > not be established, nor thy kingdom. Wherefore now send and fetch him > unto me, > for he shall surely die. 1 Samuel 20: 30-31 > > > > Jonathan warns David that his father is still angry, and that he's > not safe. > They reaffirm their covenant to each other, kiss each other, cry over > the > situation, and I'm not even going to try to interpret what it might > mean when > the passage says "David exceeded". > > > > 41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward > the south, > and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: > and they > kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded. > 42 And > Jonathan said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both > of us in > the name of the LORD, saying, The LORD be between me and thee, and > between my > seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan > went into > the city. 1 Samuel 20: 41-42 > > In 2 Samuel 1, David hears about the death of Saul and Jonathan in > battle. He > mourns their deaths, and remembers his times together with Jonathan > stating that > Jonathan's love for him was stronger than Jonathan's love for women. > > > > 25 How are the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! O Jonathan, > thou wast > slain in thine high places. 26 I am distressed for thee, my brother > Jonathan: > very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, > passing the > love of women. 2 Samuel 1:26 > > > > Well that's their story as told in the Holy Bible. There are other > Bible heroes > that are rumoured to have been gay or lesbian. Among them are Ruth > and Naomi, > Daniel and an eunuch, and the Apostle Paul (though if he was, he had > his own > issues with sexuality). > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 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