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FWIW, I've never found DaveH to be anything but
honest. If someone on TT has found otherwise please identify yourself and, give
illustrations from Dave's posts on TT. Otherwise...........oops....can't say
that.-
----- Original Message -----
Sent: October 15, 2005 11:59
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judging by
Doctrine
DAVEH: If you don't like my answers, Dean....why do you
ask the questions???
I find it interesting that you
apparently find my answers to be dishonest. I'm not sure why you feel
that way, Dean......perhaps you are presupposing something that is not
necessarily so. One thing I believe about communication is that it is a
two way street. Whenever one side tries to control the discussion, not
much gets discussed....or perhaps I should say there is a reluctance to listen
on the part of at least one party, so there is not really a true exchange of
ideas. Perhaps that is what you want though.
Boasting? If you really think I am boasting.....I need to apologize to
you and the other TTers. I neither feel the need to boast, nor do I
think it becoming of a Christian. I am sorry that you believe I have
done such. The reason I included the hypothetical back stabbing comment
was merely to convey to you my thought process as to your comments about my
respect for your beliefs and warring against your God. I was not
suggesting you had stabbed me in the back, and if you took it as such....my
apologies for poorly conveying my thoughts.
To keep
your tears from smearing your mascara, can we kiss and make
up.......and....... may I call you Brother Dean from now
on!?!?!?!?! :-)
Dean Moore wrote:
cd: I will not go down this road with you again at this time-when I
feel you are honest we can talk -till then -tally ho and keep boasting on
you great qualities-stab you in the back while you do the forgiving-geez I
almost shed a tear over that one-almost :-)
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
10/14/2005 3:35:10 AM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Judging by Doctrine
DAVEH: Jesus Christ is my Savior and
Redeemer. Is that succinct testimony adequate,
Dean?
cd: I had the opportunity to speak to a man the other day who
claimed he believed in God. My reply was : : Do you believe
in the God of Abraham ,Isaac, Jacob? I got no response from him.
The point is which Jesus do you believe in? The Catholics believe in
one who allows worship of idols (ie. praying to Mary, dead
Saints...etc). In my short time upon this earth I have found that
one person in a cult actually believes that they are in one. Do
you believe in a Jesus that allows more then one wife (ie. providing
for
death,adultery,abandonment)? DAVEH:
I believe there have been times when the Lord has not only allowed
polygamy, but has actually encouraged it. At other times he has
forbidden it. As I see it, most Christians only acknowledge those
times when it was discouraged or forbidden, apparently without recognizing
that some of the Lord's chosen people (including his prophets) had
multiple wives without His condemnation.
Do you believe in a Jesus that allows marriage in
heaven? DAVEH: I do not believe
marriages are or can be performed in heaven. I believe such unions
are an earthly ordinance, that are meant to be sealed by one with the
proper authority while in mortality. And as Jesus explained to
Peter, those servants who possess the power of the Lord to bind on earth,
can join together man, wife and families that will remain bound together
in heaven.....despite those who would wish to put such asunder. That
is the power of the Jesus in whom I believe.
Let
me ask you a question, Dean.....Do you believe Jesus has the power to keep
families together in heaven?
Is the Jesus you believe in the only way to heaven or can this
be obtained by works?
DAVEH: Without Jesus'
atoning sacrifice, nobody could return to heaven....no matter what works
he could perform. First, without Jesus there would be no possibility
of our resurrection. There simply is nothing we could do on our own
to overcome that chasm.....the separation of our spirit from our physical
body. Just as Adam brought physical death to us, Jesus alone made it
possible for us to overcome that death by virtue of his
resurrection.....nothing is required on our part, except being born into
mortality.
Regarding works, Jesus atoned for our
sins....making it possible for those who make a covenant with him to allow
for the remission of their sins. I believe that those who covenant
with the Lord are first exercising faith, an d then they are commanded to
repent of their sins. The nature of that covenant is evidenced
by being born with a water baptism which symbolically washes away the sins
of the participant, and the Lord in return gives the Gift of the Holy
Ghost to the person being baptized, signifying that he is born
again. Besides having faith, repenting and being baptized, our part
of the covenant we make with the Lord is to keep his commandments.
In return, we have the promise of salvation for those who endure to the
end.
So.....Jesus has told us how to get
to heaven, and then he cleared the way of all the impassable obstacles
that would prevent us from getting there. What barriers remain are
those that are self imposed.....and a failure to follow in Jesus'
footsteps. Simply put, it is up to us to do those things that he
has commanded in order for us to become one with the Lord in his
Kingdom. Do you disagree, Dean?< BR>
Do you really think I am overtly
trying to lead TTers to hell? Or, do you think I am
inadvertently doing so simply by being a member of TT?
cd: I believe that you serve you master
well DAVEH: I do not
feel I have served Jesus to my full potential.....but thanx for the
compliment!
and are chomping at the bit to lead people to
Mormonism DAVEH: You do
not know me very well, Dean.
<sigh>
BTW....When you attended the LDS
meeting a few years ago, did anybody seem to be chomping at the bit to convert you? And....have
I exhibited any characteristics here on TT that would suggest I am chomping at the bit to convert you?
( the gate way to
hell). DAVEH: I'm sad
that you feel that way. :-(
Weather or not you know whom you serve in not my concern-I know
and that is enough. DAVEH:
Likewise, it mattereth not what you think of me....I know Jesus is my Lord
and Savior. That is sufficient for my needs in respect to what you
think about me.
BTW.....I do understand your thinking
regarding my beliefs in LDS theology, and I appreciate your concern
for my eternal welfare. However........FTR, I respectfully
disagree with you in this matter.
cd: How can you respect me while warring against my
God?
DAVEH:
??? Where did you get that, Dean? Why do you feel I am
warring against your God? Have I done anything to belittle or
condemn you, or your belief in God? If you sincerely believe
in Jesus....I have no quarrel with you. I respect your belief
in the Lord, even though I may disagree with the way you practice it at
times.
That is not to say that I agree with your
doctrinal beliefs either. But I respect you as a Christian who is
following Christ to the dictates of your conscious. You do not even
have to respect me, or my beliefs.....I will still respect you for your
sincere beliefs in the Lord.
From my LDS
perspective, I truly believe you and I are both literally spirit children
of our Heavenly Father. Even if you were to stab me in the back, I
would still respect that heavenly kinship be tween us and pray that you
would change your (backstabbing) ways. I know that is sometimes
hard....but I think it is what Jesus would want me to
do.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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