JD wrote:
You have not read Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon
[on "telos" ] or you would have encountered my quotation
with the 14th word of his definition !!!!
Our editions are either not the same, or you have changed the wording in
your quotation, John. I'm not going to get into this all over again with
you. If you think I am dishonest, there is not much I can do about that,
but it will hurt you to think evil of me.
JD wrote:
In the past, you claimed to have a copy of Thayer in
your library by Baker Publishing Company.
Yes, I do. I also have an electronic version in e-sword which apparently is
condensed. You can get a free copy of it at www.e-sword.net if you like.
Here is another link to the definition in Thayer's Lexicon:
http://www.biblecentre.net/nt/greek/thayer/v2/2-Index.html
I don't see the "14th word of his definition" there, whatever that means.
You really should try to use standard means of reference. Talk to Bill
Taylor about it. He should be able to help you.
JD wrote:
I had asked you to copy the definition you claimed was
from that book , a definition that was counter to the
Thayer's publication I have. You conveniently left off
the discussion and went to fight the whirlwind, or something
of that nature.
I'm sorry, JD, but as I remember it, the definition was several pages long,
as you well know. I don't have time to transcribe books for you, and
besides, my intent in this forum is not to fight over what some dead man
wrote many years ago. I don't even consider Thayer to be the best authority
on Greek. At the time he wrote, the papyri had not been well studied. The
Greek of the New Testament was thought to be unique, kind of a secret Bible
language. I find Bauer et. al. to provide a better lexicon, along with
going to one of Bauer's favorite references, Moulton and Milligan,
"Vocabulary of the Greek Testament."
JD wrote:
I do not believe that your Baker edition is different
in content (speaking of Thayer's wording) from my
Zondervan edition -- not one word will be different.
I gave you my address and mentioned that I would
be glad to repay for any expenses.
What? You want me to mail you my copy? I don't remember this. Why? This
is very strange. I provide you links to Thayer's online which does not
match your edition word for word. Why is this not sufficient for you to
realize what editors have done with his work?
Look, words have various shades of meaning in usage. It does not matter
what an authority has to say about it, this is fact. The word "end" in
English takes on various meanings. In like manner, Greek is not much
different. "Telos" takes on various shades of meaning, even meaning tax in
some contexts. We use context and common sense to understand the nuance the
author intends to convey to us. You claimed that "telos" always and only
means "end of state [of being] or an action,' end or termination ONLY."
Just the fact that the word sometimes means tax should clue you in that
something is a little wrong with this statement. You want to claim it is
Thayer's statement and not yours, fine, but I sure would like to find that
in Thayer's reference so I can show others how contradictory Thayer is. It
sure would be a good reason for me not to use his lexicon.
David Miller wrote:
Thayer does say, "the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose."
Therefore, either you are misunderstanding him or quoting him
out of context for your own "end" (pun intended). :-)
JD wrote:
Yes, Thayer does say this as he discusses
I Tim 1:5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, the copy of Thayer that I referenced for you with that link apparently
stripped out this context. Nevertheless, what does it matter? If Thayer
says this concerning 1 Tim. 1:5, how can he then turn around and say, "The
word always means 'end of a state [of being] or an action,' end or
termination ONLY." It sure seems to me that these extreme words "ALWAYS"
and "ONLY" are your insertions that you are trying to pass off as Thayer.
JD wrote:
If you are being honest, here, then you are putting
too much stock on your Internet sources.
The long and the short of it is this ---- I am
quoting Thayer and you are not.
I don't know what you are quoting for sure because you have not given me
enough reference to check it out. I'm not going to make a trip to the
library to try and find Zondervan's edition without a more specific
reference, such as page numbers and enough text to more readily find your
quote. I'm planning to preach Thursday at the university, so if you ever
decide to reference your source better, I might make that trip to the
library and check it out. Otherwise, I consider this discussion a waste of
time.
JD wrote:
Perhaps Lance can find a copy of Thayer, published
by Baker. I would be more than happy to purchase
the book.
Have you ever considered the library?
If you want to buy my copy, I might consider selling it to you, if I can
find time to wrap it up for you. I don't value my copy very much, and I
don't know why you would value Thayer so much. Following is a quote from
the Publisher's introduction (Baker Book House):
"A word of caution is necessary. Thayer was a Unitarian, and the errors of
this sect occasionally come through in the explanatory notes. The reader
should be alert for both subtle and blatant denials of such doctrines as the
Trinity (Thayer regarded Christ as a mere man and the Holy Spirit as an
impersonal force emanating from God), the inherent and total depravity of
fallen human nature, the eternal punishment of the wicked, and Biblical
inerrancy."
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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