RE: [TruthTalk] Intent of the Law

[ShieldsFamily]

Wishing you were my next door neighbor so I could hear your exhortations, Brother Kevin! iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:59 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Intent of the Law   Hold on: Be back after I go preach on my front lawn. Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:       ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 11/12/2005 10:06:20 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Intent of the Law   Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin .Are you doing everything you know you shouldn't? cd: That is quite a large trap you left for me bro.Paul didn't do all things he should have either was that sin for him?Yet he claimed to be blameless under the law.Consider this Rom.14:22 Happy is he that condemneth not himself in the things which he alloweth. Can we allow fornication?or stealing, and even false wittiness? No? That is because I know to do good by the teaching of Christ- but as He stated only God is good. Therefore I will far short on perfection as God is perfect-but still do the good of the law of His commandments and be righteous (ie good standing within the moral law).Note there are still aspect of the commandments I have yet to learn but am expected to practice what I do know. Try answering one question-one little one-Which laws did he write on our hearts? Hebrews 8:10 says that God will write his laws in our hearts and then states we will not have to teach our neighbor for all shall know him. Does all know the things we are teachings? No? But all men know the commandments for all nations have similar laws of no committing murder,stealing... etc (allowing for latter day corruption of course as power is given to evil for a short season). So then the Law to do good is the commandments-not everything I imagine to do such as why am I teaching on a computer when I can reach more people in town as you could in front of your house this very minute?Are we sinning by doing so? Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 11/12/2005 9:10:16 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Intent of the Law   Who is confused (other than the lost) and what is this confusion you refer to?   LDS desire to approach God on the basis of what they can DO, by keeping the Law. Yet they DO NOT the Law. Don't you find it sad that they end up "decieving themselves"? They talk but DO NOT the walk. Since they are not able, NO ONE is able to keep the law. That is the whole point. The law makes ALL lawbreakers in need of God's Mercy. We need a SAVIOR!   cd: With the exception of DaveH-We already have a savior.So what Law are you breaking if all are Lawbreakers? I won't tell your wife or anybody:-) You are also at liberty to tell me which Law I am breaking. Isaiah 53 Show my people their transgressions... Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 11/12/2005 8:44:44 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Intent of the Law   Gal 4:21  Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? > Paul was making reference to people who desired to be under the Law. Like the LDS who desire to be under the law but are powerless to hear it and OBEY it! BE YE DOERS and NOT HEARERS ONLY DECIEVING YOUR OWN SELVES!   cd: Doesn't every sinner desire to be under the Law by sinning for pleasure?To break the Law is to be under the Law. This is the very reason I have been using the NASV-it clears up this type of confusion.   Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Original Message] > From: Peter Krostag <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Date: 11/11/2005 10:32:19 PM > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Intent of the Law > > > cd: The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ- yes-to show our > transgressions- yes- but the law is still there. > > Pete responds: > > Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a > schoolmaster. > > Paul was that saying we are no longer under the schoolmaster which is the > Law. That is pretty clear. > > Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the > law? > > Paul was making reference to people who desired to be under the Law. He > gives the allegory of Mt. Sinai and Jerusalem. Mt. Sinai was the Law and > Jerusalem was Christ. Jerusalem is the mother o f us all in that we are born > in the Spirit through Christ Jesus. The richness of His wisdom of is shown > explicitly in the Law by showing us how unrighteous we are. Like I said > before, I don't claim to understand everything, but the salvation I received > was by faith in His blood and my walk since that experience in Him is not > determined by the Law, but by living by faith and walking in the Spirit. > This is a mystery to the world because the world thinks on a different > level. > > Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and > her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the > freewoman. > > We are not from the bondwoman (The Law), but the freewoman (Christ Jesus). cd: I think at this point we need to clarify what part of the law are you speaking of? The Mosaic law in it's entirety? The dietary law? The sacrificial Law? The priestly law? The moral law as in th e ten commandments? > > cd: We know we needed a savior because of sin leading to hell and because > of Christ we are taken above the Law but if we break that same law then we > fall back under that punishment or not- as God decides- and depending on > ones continuing with that sin of not. Yes we have an advocate who is our > intercessor but I cannot claim the intercessor will always continue with > complete intercession-there is a severe penalty for that continuance even to > be cut off. > > Pete responds: > > I believe that a person who continues in sin will eventually come to a point > in his life and say, "I do not wish to fellowship with God any longer." > This is when he puts the blood of Christ to an open shame. cd: I have the tendance to think that because of continuance in sin God will say: " I will not fellowship with that person any longer (ie.a sad day). Balaam wanted both the riches of the world and God which lead t o his rejection. Esau also enjoyed sin and cried for a place of repentance and was giving none.God's choice brother for the over the limit fee not ours. > > cd: Paul said in 1 Cor 9:27 that he brought his body into subjection (ie > Fasting and prayer) lest-even though he had preached to others -he be a > castaway? > > Hebrews 3:12 Take care brethren,that there not be in any one of you an > evil, unbelieving heart that fall away from the living God. > I fail to see this in your teaching Peter. True our good works doesn't lead > one to salvation as God turns on that "light" then we are to choose. But we > are judged by our works after salvation. > Rev 20:12 ...and the dead were judged from the things which were written in > the books according to their works.also Ps 62:12, Jer. 17:10, Rom 2:6, 1 > Peter 1:17...etc. > > Pete responds: > > AMEN. > > cd:Yes if that person is walking in the Spirit-but what i f he is not? The > chose is always there day in and day out-We choose each day as we have not > lost our free will. I also don't believe we have a sinful flesh due to the > fact I was given a new heart. I don't see any part of a Christian as > evil.This is why we are tested and tried and refined as gold and silver is > refined for purity.I can claim to be righteous because of Christ and I can > claim to walk in righteous because I don't break God's commandments.Walking > in sin-which you called the flesh-will do more then stop your growth > brother. Also please explain " The atonement by the blood of Jesus keeps us > alive in Christ"? > > Pete responds: > > First: I am not sure I want to debate why the flesh is evil. I know you > have your reasons for understanding Romans 7 in a different light than how I > understand it to mean. I am not sure we will ever agree on it. cd: The words of" walking in the flesh" for me means to act as the world acts in a sinful manner-or following the old desires not the new desires of the Holy Spirit. Paul stated that he did the things he didn't want to do and failed to do the things that he wanted to do-but I don't believe Paul was a liar ,fornicator, or any type of practicing sinner. I simple believe Paul wanted to do more for God -by his works-and felt he has failed to do more.For me the flesh isn't sinful but to walk in that manner is sinful. > > Second: The new heart you and I were given at the time of our salvation was > a wonderful gift. Personally, when I received a new heart, I looked at life > completely different than I did before my salvation experience. It was as > if a veil had been lifted from my eyes. Today, I could never claim to be > righteous or to keep my righteousness because I keep the commandments. That > would mean that Jesus' blood was only good at salvation and the life I now > live is the result of keeping the Law. If t he L aw were somehow instrumental > in sustaining my salvation, then Paul's writings would have been pretty > clear about the significance of the role of the Law in a believer's life.. > He mentions that the Spirit was important in leading and guiding a believer. > He makes a huge difference between the two. Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore > in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled > again with the yoke of bondage. cd: Then why does the verse admonish us to "stand fast" as not to be entangled again in the yoke of bondage?What is this "yoke of bondage" if it not the breaking of the moral Law?The keeping of the law is instrumental in keeping one relationship with God or the admonishment wouldn't be there Peter. The very meaning of the word righteous is to be right by the law-so how can the unrighteous be called righteous. Can one be called a Homo sexual-Christian? What then is the unrighteous if not a practicing sinner?Again faith get us th ere in Christ but one cannot demand faith as a covering for his future works? Romans 3:31:"Do we then void the law thru faith? God forbid: yea we establish the law". We are justified by faith therefore I cannot boast on my ability of obtaining salvation. But I can boast of The Holy Spirit's ability to convict me and my ability to be subject to that Spirit. I can boast of being a Christian and be proud of it. BY my subjection I establish the law > > My righteousness was the result of the blood of Jesus. Any righteous deeds > that I do now, is the result of walking in obedience to the Spirit and by > growing in His grace by fellowshipping with God through the Spirit and His > Word. I never say that I am righteous today because I keep the Law, but > only through His blood. cd: Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yields yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are; whether of sin unto death,or of obedience unto righteousness? Consider the word "obedience " an d o ut part of keeping the law.1 Cor. 9:21...but under the law of Christ,). There is yet a law to be under Peter. > > Third: We are made alive through Jesus' atoning blood through the Spirit. > That act purged our conscience from dead works. We are alive in Christ > through the Spirit because of the atonement of His blood. As a new > creature, we grow in His grace. We are not born mature, but as babies. We > learn more about Him and grow spiritually by fellowship with Him and > desiring the sincere milk of the Word. The Law does not sustain my > relationship with Him. His Word and His Spirit in me, sustains me and > teaches me to live for Him and to live righteously. cd: Yet the breaking of the law can break your relationship with God -so logic would dictate your actions (ie.works,deeds) in the keeping of the Law is important relating to sustaining your relationship with God. Tell me how does one "live righteous"? > > Pete > & gt;&g t; ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 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