-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 02:19:04 -0500
Subject: [TruthTalk] Christ and the Law
PS: Why do you always ignore the main point JD which is being under the Law of Christ. You are very vocal
about the Mosaic Law but seem always to avoid the latter. I guess you must be "antinomian" after all.
The law of Christ is also known as the law of faith,' the law of love and the law of the Spirit -- in NT scripture. It is an inwardness that is completely different in essence from the Law of Moses as per Jeremiah 31:31-34 and related passages. As you use the word "law," the new covenant is a law at all. Christ is the end of the law. He fulfilled The Law. And, if we are led by the Holy Spirit of God in Christ, we are no longer under law
JD writes:
The promise of "inspiration" applies to scripture -- not translations of scripture.
Then from your perspective JD we have lost the Word of God for all intents and purposes because all we have in our generation are "translations" without any promise and with no inspiration. How terribly sad!!
Nothing "sad" about the facts of the situation. By the way, you attend a church in which you will find no one on the pastoral staff who agrees with you on this. So let's keep this in context. BSF will not offer any real support on this issue, as well. And you will never have anything but personal opinion as support for what you are saying, here. If the translations are inspired, then (a) there is no need for the thousands of MSS that have been preserved down through the ages and (b) the translators themselves are/were inspired.
You can use JudyLogic all you want. You take Ps 12 completely out of context and try to make it apply to English translation -- or is it the KJV only. The fact is this: you presume to know how this preservation was accomplished.
Exactly where do I detail HOW this is accomplished by God JD? Just one more baseless accusation.
"How" in my statement does not refer to "mechanics." I put Ps 13 back into context. You ignored this.
The "words" that are preserved are the one's spoken by the Lord in v 5 of Ps 12 !!! The psalmist is not talking about the "bible" --- he is talking about the word that will establish the afflicted and the needy. &n bsp;
Looks to me (on the basis of the above) that you are the one who details how God can not or will not do what He says He
will do. Psalm 12 is a Psalm of David and yes, God takes care of the poor and needy - He is also well able to preserve His Word in every generation with or without anyone's permission.
So, we agree ?? !!
Jeremiah 51:63
Judy -- stop with this proof-texting !!! This is not about the "originals." It is about a prophecy against Babylon. The sinking of the scroll of oracles was a visual lesson to that city of what lay ahead.
So was the whole nation of Babylon watching so that they could receive the "visual lesson?" and did they put away their pagan dieties for a time to listen to the record of the captive Jewish prophet? Who is "proof texting?" and why this "straw man term" that you whip out whenever you don't like the direction JD. I understand that some things are hard to swallow and don't deny the subject of the prophecy but neither can you deny the fact that the prophet was instructed to weigh the original written record with a rock and throw it into the Euphrates and yet it remains in the scriptural record anyway ... So where is the beef?
One thing for sure, Judy .. you do a better job at making us think you are "bible based" when, in point of fact, you seldom even bother with scripture -- except when you are proof-texting. This is a case in point. You begin with a a logical impossibly [from your perspective] by saying "So was the whole nation of Babylon watching .........?" and away you go from there. By the same "logic," Seraiah did not prophecy against Babylon. Nonsense !!! What you obviously have pictured here, is the finality of the prophecy. It is Seraiah [following Jeremiah's instructions] who makes the visual lesson a part of the prophecy.................. as the scroll sin
ks into the Euphrates he was to say "....so shall Babylon sink down and not rise again"
Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" That is a very, very powerful God, but if God says, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" (Matt 24:35) - what great care and power he must extend to those words.
And His word does continues.
Hmmm ... With permission and only the parts that have your approval JD; which are the ones that fit into your peculiar doctrinal mould and agree with your favorite men of the cloth. Do you tremble at His Word JD? or do you try to temper parts you consider to be hard because God is so loving after all??
Nothing in the above has any substantive influence on this thread. We are not discussing me and I am not going to get caught up in that trap. Do not make the mistake of believing that you cherish the Message and I do not. Such would be untrue......Let's stick to the thread's original subject.
Wisdom begins with the fear of the Lord ...... but perfect love [in time] casts out fear. I no longer fear God in the sense that I frightened by Him.
The Berean call was to "search the scriptures daily" not correct them. When the bible refers to "scriptures" as it does here in Acts 17:11, the reference is to copies not original manuscripts. Consider 2 Timothy 3:15, "From a child thou hast known the holy scriptures" Neither he nor the Ethiopian eunuch, who also read "the scriptures" had the 800 year old originals of the book of Isaiah. If "the word" is a Greek text only, then only the Greek speaking churches could "preach the word" (2 Tim 4:2) and only those fluent in Greek could be "born again by the word" Acts 2:6 says "Every man heard them speak in his own language"
Perhaps a good , thorough going discussion about "inspiration" would be a good thing. Does Acts 2:9 have anything to do with "inspiration" as we are discussing the issue .................. exactly what are we discussing, Judy? I can list perhaps five or six different subjects brought into this discussion, at this point. Jewish copies of their scriptures were generated with a very different mind-set concerning MSS reproduction than the New and Gentile church. How does that play in our discussion? ACts 2:6 -- does that picture a similar process as we study or casually read the modern day biblical message? How are the terms "revelation" and "inspiration" different? How are they related? Should we toss the ancient MSS and give our books away? &nbs
p; Or , maybe, "we should just hand over the books that G, JD Lance and Bill use?
Your theory tells us that the greek text is the only thing NOT included in God's promise to preserve His "word." Silliness.
What you call "my theory" does not distinguish Greek from any other language (see Acts 2:6). God the Spirit was able to translate Peter's words on the day of Pentecost to those of every nation present at the temple on that day; believers also received the promise that He would bring to their remembrance what they should say in response to their accusers. So has something changed since then?
Ah, yes. But what did happen on Pentecost Day? The miracle had to do with hearing the sermon in languages and dialects present on that day. That's it. You apparently disagree.
Is God in the business of deceiving housewives who do not have access to a library of Greek reference books? 1 Cor 6:4 reminds us to "set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church" We can have confidence that "every word" in the KJ Bible is the pure word of God."
God used the unlearned -- not the ignorant or stupid !!! Paul is the guy who wrote this passage you misapply. Was he ignorant, unlearned? The statement Paul makes contrasts the first century Christian culture with the prevailing Roman/Jewish culture of the day. You were regarded as unwise and unlearned if YOU WERE A CHRISTIAN. It is in this context that Paul writes. He includes himself in this statement .............. as he was as educated as anyone he confronted !!!!!
