Actually, Ro 1: 18-25 is a statement of circumstances failed and , as such, find the sinner given over to his own creation. Homosexuality is only one of 26 sins listed -- a list that was NOT intended to be a complete list, no doubt. Verses 18-25 applies to back-talking parents just as much as it applies to homosexuality. Paul has not singled out one sin (gayness) to the exclusion of the others in the list.
cd: To begin with John Romans 1 (KJV)is showing the character of those who are homosexual-v29 starts of with "Being filled..." which show it is connected to and a part of v.28 and "They..." of verse 27 is referring to v.26. It is speaking of the same group of people. The idea is that people who will go this far into darkness will have no value for any laws and this I have wittinessed-but one must try and bring them truth also which is why we preach to them. Also the word "Gayness" means goodness-are these people good?
Are you trying to tell me that the sin example is used consistently in this text? OF COURSE IT IS. But Paul could have plugged in any of the 26 sins and made the point. Paul is not accusing his readership of being homosexual only in 2:1-3. "... you who judge practice the same things ...(v1). What "thingS"? The list, my friend.
CD:Then how do the believers do the same things listed for the ungodly? In v2 Paul is speaking to the Jews who did such things as is on the list -not the Godly-He is warning us not to do the same as the ungodly-for if we condemn them for such acts-then be sure we are not doing the same.
Because of the truth of such passages as Heb.10:14, we realize that we are not to be defined by our sins. Instead, we are to consider ourselves dead to sin (Ro 6:11) and in this consideration, allow the old man to fade while the new man becomes the motivating influence ( Eph 4:20-24 -- yes Virginian, the old man is still there).
cd: Actually we are new creatures in Christ-2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ,he is a new creature: old thing are pasted away:behold all things are become new. No -Virginian-the old man is gone.The key that helps me understand the bible is if it disagrees then my understanding must change -not chose one verse and ignore the other. So you just going to pretend that Eph 4:20-24 is not there?
cd: We choose each day to put on the new man or the old man-Walk in Holiness or return to sin.This is not saying we haven't changed it is to warn not to return to sin as the old man did.
Or what about I Co 3:1ff?
cd: Paul is speaking to a church which is regressing into sin.Paul is giving then milk because they cannot receive the stronger word of truth. This is in no way stating a born again believer retains the old man.
Or Romans 3:23?
cd: Yes all have sinned-but in the past-v25"...,to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,through the forbearance of God.
Or the conifrmation to the SAINTS IN ROMAN that there is none who are righeous, no not one?
Cd: Read the rest of the Paragraph-One cannot take one sentence to form a doctorine-He is talking to the lost-v.11...there are none that seek after God. Is this also true-Do you seek after God? v12 ...There is none that does Good. Did Jesus do good? Did Paul do good?Have you helped the poor? Then who is this talking to if not the lost.v.18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. Do you fear God? I do. So who is their referring to if not the lost. Your teaching would have us believe it should read. There is no fear of God before our eyes.
Luke 1;6 And they were both righteous before God...
Romans 5:19..so by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous.
cd: Respectifully-If any words in the Bible doesn't agree with ones belief then it is our duty to search out why-do this and live.
We are all affected by sin (Ro 2:1) and should not forget this fact when we are filled with he desire to judge others as if we are different. The point of the book of Romans is two-fold (at least through chapter 8) -- we are sinners and still dealing with sin issues AND God in Christ saves us anyway.
cd: There is a vast difference then judging others and judging sin-If I see a child molester molesting a child can I not say "Stop Child Molester"-would it be fair for him to say"Hey stop Judging me you are in the wrong"-this doesn't make sense to me. No- we are not still sinners-John I summit to you that you have been influenced by Calvinist teachings-which are wrong. I suggest a book entitled "The Believers Conditional Security by Daniel D. Cooper, it will really help you understand what I am saying. James 1:14" But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lusts, and enticed. v15 Then when lusts hath conceived, it bringth forth sin:and sin,when it is finished,bringeth forth death.
Sin is easily identified in the bible 1 John 3:5"...for sin is transgression of the law v. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seem him,neither known him."-we are not sinners John! v8" He that commith sin is of the devil...".v9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin..."-In v 10 we are told how to identify a believer and a non believer. " In this the children of God are manifest,and the children of the devil. You have been taught wrong John.
I have only to look to this list to prove you wrong, Dean. There is no one here that is sinless. When I speak of sin, I do not limit myself to the definition that sin is a violation of the law and neither did John in his first letter. . I do not get my beliefs from books. Not a one. It is what the biblical text says to me that is important (to me.) If you want to deal with the passages I gave, above, I would be interested. If you want ot pretend that they do not exist or are not important because you can quote scriptures that say what you perfer -- well, then we are not going to have a discussion, are we?
cd: And what is your definition of sin John? How am I sinning?
