Where was God's word before 1611?
How about; Wyclif's Bible 1384Tyndale 1535Coverdale's Bible 1535Great Bible Geneva Bible Bishops' Bible
How About - Older versions:Syrian Peshetto of 157 AD Arabic, Persian, and Armenian versions Old Latin version 150 AD Other old Translations carried around the world, by missionaries & preachers. Extant Greek manuscripts The Old Testament preserved by the Jews. Romans 3:2 unto them were committed the oracles of God.
The Jewish cannon is devided into Law, prophets, psalms or Torah, Nebiim, Kethubhim.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
The Jewish cannon starts with Blood of Abel, ends with the blood of Zacharias (Gen to Chronicles - Jewish order of books)
Luke 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
This matches the different order of books in the Jewish cannon, but they are the same 39 books as the KJV (NO APOCRYPHAL BOOKS)!!!!!!!
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
The Jewish cannon starts with Blood of Abel, ends with the blood of Zacharias (Gen to Chronicles - Jewish order of books)
Luke 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
This matches the different order of books in the Jewish cannon, but they are the same 39 books as the KJV (NO APOCRYPHAL BOOKS)!!!!!!!
It is well known that the Jews took religious and meticulous care in their transcription.
The scribes were very diligent and if but a single page was marred the whole was to be cast upon the scrap heap.
John Owen said "The Jews have a common saying among them - that to alter one letter of the Law,is no less sin than to set the whole World on fire, and shall we think that in writing it they took no more care than a man would do in writing out Aristotle or Plato" Of the Integrity and Purity of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures Vol. XVI, P. 356
The scribes were very diligent and if but a single page was marred the whole was to be cast upon the scrap heap.
John Owen said "The Jews have a common saying among them - that to alter one letter of the Law,is no less sin than to set the whole World on fire, and shall we think that in writing it they took no more care than a man would do in writing out Aristotle or Plato" Of the Integrity and Purity of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures Vol. XVI, P. 356
The naturalist Modernistic critics would be
wise to study this saying!
Rabbi Moses, Tractatus de Libro Legis,chapter X. Lists 20 things that profane a copy. One of them is...If but one letter be wanting; and another, If but one letter be redundant...
Owens said "Jewish scribes and copyists would never have dared to insert vowels not in the originals or ancient copies thereof!"
Not so whoever messed with Aleph & B! They disfigured its face.
Compare the statements of the scribes reverence and atitude & see if they square with the content and character of the grossly misfigured and CORRUPT Aleph & B Mss.
http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Vaticanus/note1512.html
Compare the statements of the scribes reverence and atitude & see if they square with the content and character of the grossly misfigured and CORRUPT Aleph & B Mss.
http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Vaticanus/note1512.html
Now I leave you with a question.
What about those before the Time of Moses who gave us the Pentatuech?
Where was God's word?
Is God able to get his word to the pygmy in the farthest reaches?
Is God able to get his word to the pygmy in the farthest reaches?
Hint:
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
What scripture existed during Abrahams time?
Guess it depends on if you are a Bible believer or a Bible Doubter!
If you believe there is a God who created the universe and the complexities of Life, but do not think God can get His word to man, or preserve His word in a book without error, (YE OLDE BIBLE is just written by men argumente) You need your head examined!
Matthew 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Guess it depends on if you are a Bible believer or a Bible Doubter!
If you believe there is a God who created the universe and the complexities of Life, but do not think God can get His word to man, or preserve His word in a book without error, (YE OLDE BIBLE is just written by men argumente) You need your head examined!
Matthew 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
How BIG is your God?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I do not know why you go off on such a tangent? You are the one who believes this if you believe that the KJV translation "is the only one for me," What was used for English speaking folk before the KJV? Which edition of the received text IS the correct one and why did it take a Dutch Catholic so long to get it right? And which edition of the KJV is the right one? The one with all those other books in it, or the Protestant version? And why did Erasmus add ACts 9:6a? You above all people know full well that this does not appear in any greek text ? And what about the last six verses of Revelations? Erasmus couldn't find those words. What is of more value, here -- the actual greek text (received text) or the man-made translation of that text?Regarding W & H - you have apparently forgotten what I said about them?I believe that the written message has always been there. I also believe that God's has never ceased to work His will nor the Power of the Indwelling to have ever been made void.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:01:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
Just think for all those years the church did not have the word of God just a Single Man-Made translation. UNTIL (1881) God found himself TWO RCC Heretics named Westcott & Hort to RESTORE the Original intent & text! Sort of like a Christianized verison of the JO Smith story!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Judy, I spoke of a single edition, not a single-man made edition. I don't care how many translated it, and neither do you. the KJV is a production of the will and purpose of mankind. It is a man-made translation. But throw out the MSS. That is certainly your preference.
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:07:40 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
Then childishness has taken a lot of ppl to heaven and blessed generations for more than 400yrs.It wasn't a single man JD, it was 46 different teams that were sanctified or set apart and workedprayerfully together - so why such vehement opposition from your corner?On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:01:40 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:It is not child like faith that disgards the MSS and preaches dependence on a single man-made translation, it is childishness. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:40:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
----- Original Message -----Sent: 11/25/2005 10:15:36 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisorYou misrepresent the B side of the room. The final authority is what God wants me to see as I read a given text ..................... not what a translator wants me to believe. You want to toss the MSS and trust a given man-made edition of the bible without personal verification -- be my guest. I would be an ignorant man to do so ................. not to mention the limiting effect it would have on what God is doing or teaching me in my life.jdcd: My recommendation for this solution is to have a simple child-like trust in the KJ-This type of trust invokes God and you will understand far more then what you glean from the Greek.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
cd: This is really scary in leu of level of debate on the Greek and English
languages. The Bible say a child can understand the Gospel-yet side B of
this room are concerned about the present tense and passive voices of a
dead language to explain the Gospel and the brethren have to go there to
help them understand-No wonder Jesus marveled that God hid it from the wise
and gave it to childrenThe CREED of the Alexandrian CultThere is no final authority but God.Since God is a Spirit, there is no final authority that can be seen, heard, read, felt, or handled.Since all books are material, there is no book on this earth that is the final and absolute authority on what is right and what is wrong: what constitutes truth and what constitutes error.There WAS a series of writings one time ( called the Originals) which, IF they had all been put into a BOOK as soon as they were written the first time, WOULD HAVE constituted an infallible and final authority by which to judge truth and error.However, this series of writings was lost, and the God who inspired them was unable to preserve their content through Bible-believing Christians at Antioch (Syria), where the first Bible teachers were (Acts 13:1), and where the first missionary trip originated (Acts 13:1-52), and where the word 'Christian originated (Acts 11:26).So, God chose to ALMOST preserve them through Gnostics and philosophers from Alexandria, Egypt, even though God called His Son OUT of Egypt (Matthew 2), Jacob OUT of Egypt (Genesis 49), Israel OUT of Egypt (Exodus 15), and Joseph's bones OUT of Egypt (Exodus 13).So, there are two streams of Bibles: the most accurate (though, of course, there is no final, absolute authority for determining truth and error: it is a matter of "preference") are the Egyptian translations from Alexandria, Egypt, which are "almost the originals," although not quite.The most inaccurate translations were those that brought about the German Reformation (Luther, Zwingli, Boehier, Zinzendorf, Spener, etc.) and the worldwide missionary movement of the English-speaking people: the Bible that Sunday, Torrey, Moody, Finney, Spurgeon, Whitefleld, Wesley, and Chapman used.But we can "tolerate these if those who believe in them will tolerate US. After all. Since there is NO ABSOLUTE AND FINAL AUTHORITY that anyone can read, teach, preach. or handle, the whole thing is a matter of "PREFERENCE." You may prefer what you prefer, and we will prefer what we prefer; let us live in peace, and if we cannot agree on anything or everything, let us all agree on one thing: THERE IS NO FINAL, ABSOLUTE, WRITTEN AUTHORITY OF GOD ANYWHERE ON THIS EARTH.
Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net> wrote:cd: This is really scary in leu of level of debate on the Greek and English
languages. The Bible say a child can understand the Gospel-yet side B of
this room are concerned about the present tense and passive voices of a
dead language to explain the Gospel and the brethren have to go there to
help them understand-No wonder Jesus marveled that God hid it from the wise
and gave it to children-Point-What do the teachings of Gods words instruct
one to do-Then live by that-for you will be judged by that standard- if the
heart is true to the intent of wanting truth-the proud will never see it
anyway.
> [Original Message]
> From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Date: 11/24/2005 6:40:45 PM
> Subject : Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
>
> Bill wrote:
> > You highlight the problem with leaving off the
> > present passive aspect of this participle, David;
>
> I have not left off the present passive aspect. In English, we don't
> conjugate the participle this way, but the phrase is clear enough for
those
> of us who understand English. It carries over the present tense and
passive
> voice just fine.
>
> Bill wrote:
> > hence loosing track of the unfinished- or
> > incompleteness of it.
>
> You are reading to much into first year textbook definitions, Bill. I
> expect more from you.
>
> Bill wrote:
> > Do you presume to have finished the race,
> > while waiting for the likes of Paul to catch up?
>
> No, of course not. My comments to Judy make this clear, and illustrate
why
> this thread is so ridiculous. I agree with you about the reality that
> sanctificat ion is an ongoing process. My comments to you concerned the
> exe gesis of this one passage. Your question to me here misses my point
> entirely. Regardless of how I answer your question (and you already know
my
> answer from past posts), the text you exegete is uneffected by the
answer.
> In other words, your question is irrelevant, so why waste the time asking
> it?
>
> Present tense passive voice in English is the same as present tense
passive
> voice in Greek. Why are you trying to make out like it is something
> different? It almost seems like you are presenting a situation where
you,
> as a s tudent of Greek, have personal private knowledge that others lack.
Do
> you really think they are handicapped in understanding this passage
because
> of their lack of formal education in the Greek language?
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller.
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
kn o w how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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