Re: [TruthTalk] Re:On Judy once again employing the ad hom (Barf for Karl Barth)

[Kevin Deegan]

To the FAITHless it would seem of no big import to consider parts of the Bible as just "Legend". They are part of the many that consider the Bible as Saga & Legend, whats the big deal?

Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks Kevin;

The Barthians have been at it all day today, so glad to see you are still about... What an unbelieving mess

this is.  I can not imagine anyone allowing this man to mediate between himself and God.  Can you??

 

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 13:49:36 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Hero of the FAITHless?

"The Bible is God's Word so far as God lets it be his Word" (Barth, Church Dogmatics, I / 2, 123)
 
"THE WORD WHICH ENTERS HUMAN EARS AND IS UTTERED BY HUMAN LIPS, IS THE WORD OF GOD--ONLY WHEN THE MIRACLE TAKES PLACE. OTHERWISE, IT IS JUST A HUMAN WORD LIKE ANY OTHER. ... What stands there, in the pages of the Bible, is the witness to the Word of God ... God can be called truth only when 'truth' is understood in the sense of the Greek word 'aletheia'" (Barth, Romans).
 
"If you ask about God and if I am really to tell about him, dialectic is all that can be expected from me. ... Neither my affirmation nor my denial lays claim to being God's truth. Neither one is more than a witness to that truth which stands in the center, between every Yes and No. And therefore I have never affirmed without denying and never denied without affirming, for neither affirmation nor denial can be final. If my witness to the final answer you are seeking does not satisfy you, I am sorry. It may be that my witness to it is not yet sufficiently clear, that is, that I have not limited the Yes by the No and the No by the Yes incisively enough to set aside all misunderstanding-- incisively enough to let you see that nothing is left except that upon which the Yes and the No, and the No and the Yes, depend. But it may also be that your refusal of my answer arises from your not having really asked your question, from your not having asked about God--for otherwise we should understand each other" (Karl Barth, The Word of God and the Word of Man, Pilgrim Press, p. 209).
 
http://www.voxpopuli.org/book_2_8.php
Karl Barth was asked did he have the same reservations about St. Joseph as about Our Lady. "Not at all" he replied; "I love St. Joseph. I rejoiced when John XIII inserted his name in the Roman Canon. I intend to ask Paul VI to give him prominence," and then a memorable word, "He protected the Child; he will protect the Church." More radically direct was the very sharp criticism of the Marian text by J.J. von Almen of Neuchatel University, Pastor of the Swiss Reformed Church, who held that the Council had no right to eliminate St. Joseph. He was the guarantor before Israel of the messianic tradition and he is the model of male sanctity as is Our Lady of female holiness.
 
"The assumption that Jesus is the Christ (1.4) is, in the strictest sense of the word, an assumption, void of any content that can be comprehended by us" (Barth, Romans, p. 36).
 
"THIS TOMB MAY PROVE TO BE DEFINITELY CLOSED OR AN EMPTY TOMB: IT IS REALLY A MATTER OF INDIFFERENCE." (Barth, The Resurrection of the Dead, p. 135).
 
 "In a later letter to Gordon W. Clark, Carl F.H. Henry gave a pointed account of the occasion. When he, Henry, asked Barth whether the resurrection event was of such a nature in covering it, that it would have been regarded in the same sense in which the man on the street understands news, Barth became visibly angry and asked, sarcastically, 'Did you say Christianity Today or Christianity yesterday?' He then continued by saying that 'the resurrection of Jesus had significance only for His disciples,' implying that it had no significance to the world. The religious editor of United Press International, Louis Cassels, said upon leaving, 'We got Barth's answer; it was 'Nein' [the German word for 'no']' (Gordon H. Clark, Historiography--Secular and Religious, The Craig Press, 1972, reprinted in Christian News Encyclopedia, Vol. 2, p. 1480).

 

Like all ancient literature the Old and New Testaments know nothing of the distinction of fact and value between history on the one hand and saga and legend on the other (I, 2, 509).

In common with the creation storythe history of the resurrection has to be regarded as "saga" or "legend." The death of Jesus Christ can certainly be thought of as history in the modern sense, but not the resurrection (IV, 1, 336).

The vulnerability of the Bible, i.e., its capacity for error, also extends to its religious or theological content (I, 1,509)..

 

The "legend" of the finding of the empty tomb is not of itself and as such the attestation of Jesus Christ as he showed himself alive after his death. It is ancillary to this attestation. The one can be as little verified "historically" as the other. Certainly the empty tomb cannot serve as an "historical" proof (IV, 1, 341).

 

The prophets and apostles as such, even in their office,… were real historical men as we are, and … Actually guilty of error in their spoken and written word (Church Dogmatics, I, 2, 528-529).

Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I know he would not pledge allegiance to Hitler which is noteworthy but the very fact that Hitler and his occult socialist system gained that much control in his country somewhat proves the impotency of his message. He did teach at a University there - right?  So he influenced others with his unbelief.  God judges Barth the man.  I evaluate Barf the theologian who does not believe God's Word to be inerrant.

 

 

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 11:05:01 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Your use of "Barf" is both a contradiction to your shallow claim that you    do not judge Barth and a clear statement to the fact that you know nothing of what this man believes and the concerns he dealt with in his battle against liberal theologies (among other considerations.)    

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 07:46:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:On Judy once again employing the ad hom (Barf for Karl Barth)

I am not in any position to judge Barf's personal life and neither are you Lance.  Calvins' was a bit more public.

And didn't you write the following "I've met the 'Huntmeister' and, we spoke. He's big into this 'end times' drivel. . "

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, isn't the above a truly shallow, petulant, and uniformed caricature & reprehensible?

 

 

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 07:35:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

This man served our Lord faithfully throughout his life as did John Calvin. To take note of these truly shallow, petulant, and uniformed caricatures is reprehensible. What 'spirit' inhabits such an one as this? Take care Judy"

From: Judy Taylor

 

Footnotes??  Only if the original thought makes any sense.  Barf definitely would not qualify.

 

 

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 06:06:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

One would not have thought you so easily impressed, Judy. Ya wants footnotes? May I suggest Karl Barth? I've met the 'Huntmeister' and, we spoke. He's big into this 'end times' drivel. .

 

                                         judyt                                       
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
                              is a liar (1 John 2:4)

 

                                         judyt                                       
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
                              is a liar (1 John 2:4)

 

                                         judyt                                       
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
                              is a liar (1 John 2:4)

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                                         judyt                                       
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
                              is a liar (1 John 2:4)

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