Bill wrote:
> ... the rest of us have been reading her for a long
> time and every time we think we understand
> something, she abruptly changes her position --
> or so it seems.
I had to chuckle a little on this statement. Some are critical that Judy
never seems to change from her position, and here you say that she keeps
changing her position. For what it's worth, I have been reading Judy for a
long time too, and I have not seen her change her perspective too much.
That does not mean that she is not learning, but rather that she has some
formed opinions and has the integrity not to be swayed about with every wind
of doctrine that comes along. From my perspective, you guys keep
constructing straw men arguments, claiming they are her's, and then when it
finally comes out that she doesn't believe what you have been arguing all
along that she believes, you think she has changed her perspective. It is
not Judy that has changed, but your categorization of her that has changed.
I cannot help but think of the Scripture, "he that is spiritual judges all
things, yet he himself is judged of no man."
Concerning the Godhead, it seems clear to me that she accepts the Trinity
concept, but does not like using the word "Trinity" because, a) it is not a
Biblical word, b) it has different meanings to different people, c) if she
is going to have a good understanding of the term, she will have to study
outside the Bible, d) why spend the time studying outside the Bible when
everything she needs to know about the Godhead is in the Bible... I hope
you get the picture. That is my "read" of Judy, but I could be wrong.
If I were to classify her Godhead viewpoint, I could say that she is
Trinitarian with a very strong bent toward Sebellianism. I have held this
view of her theology of the Godhead of years.
I wish I could help her undersatnd the role of the humanity of Christ in
salvation, and help her understand the Incarnation better, but I fear that
some on the forum have created within her such a distaste for the word
"Incarnation" that it would be a little difficult to do right now.
By the way, the reason for your questions to her are apparent to me because
of my historical and theological reading, but I don't think they register
the same with her. This is why she tends not to answer at times. The
questions appear unrelated and out in left field to her. You treat her as
if she were a professor with a heretical bent rather than a faithful servant
of the Most High who has not had the formal training that you have had. I
think it is possible for you to teach with more gentleness, meekness, and
patience towards her.
One more comment: ideology is not always meant to be boxed up in a nice
little package. Perhaps we should not try so hard to do that with one
another. If relationship is more important than ideas, if persons have
priority over ideas (as Debbie articulated recently), then work on that a
little more and then bring in the other. It seems to me that Dean has been
doing that recently. Don't you guys like the "new" Dean? Don't you become
more open to hearing him as you find that there is some common ground
between you?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----- Original Message -----
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
... I learn very much from Judy's posts.
Good, then perhaps you could explain to us Judy's understanding of God (the
makeup of the Trinity or "Godhead") and Christ (the nature of his divinity
and humanity), because the rest of us have been reading her for a long time
and every time we think we understand something, she abruptly changes her
position -- or so it seems.
I'm all ears,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Christine Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Debbie wrote:
She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful
elsewhere.
You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here.
I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe
she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great
forum to hear new ideas.
Debbie wrote:
She should not be participating in such a forum at all.
I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim
of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to
air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you
would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was
condescending and closed-minded.
-Christine
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Debbie Sawczak
To: Lance Muir
Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a
trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth
they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying, and
then finds, surprise surprise, she is contradicting her own belief. That is
what makes it so maddening to try to "dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was
one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of
communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not
just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've
often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly
worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a
forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her
unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper
God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is
doubtless fruitful elsewhere.
D
I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or
the Father is God JD
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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