The problem with Debbie's analysis is that this street preacher does not
herald a call from immoral living to moral living without Christ. Rather,
the call is to turn from immoral living to a relationship with Jesus
Christ.
It's another one of those straw man divisions which does not really exist.
Nevertheless, the Elijah spirit is one which prepares the way of the Lord,
and one to which we ought not object. If you happen to have stumbled on a
street preacher in the spirit of Elijah, you ought not object just because
your theology tells you he is majoring on the minors. John the Baptist
prepared people to believe upon Jesus by preaching the following:
Luke 3:7-14
(7) Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O
generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to
say
within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That
God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
(9) And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree
therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
(10) And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
(11) He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him
impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
(12) Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master,
what shall we do?
(13) And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed
you.
(14) And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we
do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any
falsely; and be content with your wages.
In modern times, the call goes out, "say not that you are Catholic, say
not
you have a pope, say not you are Baptist, or Methodist, or Lutheran, or
Presbyterian. God is able to raise up children from this sidewalk.
Judgment is coming and every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut
down
and cast into the fire. Turn away from your sins and believe upon the
Lord
Jesus Christ in deed and in truth. He that says he believes in him will
keep his commandments."
David Miller.
----- Original Message -----
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Couldn't have said it better myself! In fact, what upsets me is that I
couldn't have even said it }:<(
Oh well, that's not going to stop me from agreeing with it :>)
Well said, Debbie.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 12:20 PM
Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
----- Original Message -----
From: Debbie Sawczak
To: 'Lance Muir'
Sent: January 14, 2006 14:18
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Of course it is sin and needs repenting of. (JD is actually making the
same
vocabulary mistake below as DM.) But it is not immorality; in fact, it is
morality. Where this whole discussion of repentance began was with a
critique of street preachers' focus on repentance as a call to turn from
immoral living to moral living. As pointed out long ago by Bill and/or JD,
the repentance urged on people in much biblical preaching was not a call
to
moral living, but a call to recognize God. Insofar as it was a call to
moral
living, it was to people who were already the people of God, and was a
call
to recognize God as covenant partner. Peter's sermon fits right into that
and moves beyond it; the covenant is gathered up in Christ who turns out
to
be both its maker and keeper, and that is why repentance is sealed by
being
baptized into him.
D
From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:45 PM
To: Debbie Sawczak
Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
----- Original Message -----
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 14, 2006 12:54
Subject: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Well it is something that needs to be repented of JD; if it is not sin,
then
why the need to repent?
Dead works is something lifeless as opposed to works of righteousness
which
are the fruit of walking after the spirit.
One is dead religion - the other is life and peace.
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:17:39 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes -- and who said that "repentance from dead works" is speaking of
sin, anyway? "Dead works" is that body of works that convinces someone
that she is accpted by God RATHER THAN PLACING HER FAITH IN THE CHRIST and
allowing Him and Him alone to be glorified in this [saving] function.
Bill's comment is brilliant, I think, and as it is attached to Acts 2 --
the best possible understanding of what happened on that First Day.
There is no reason to think that the Hebrews writer has something else in
mind when he speaks of repentance from the failing effort of self
justification.
jd
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Debbie Sawczak
Dead works is not the same as immorality, which is what I think David
means
by sin. IMO, that [his equating sin with immorality] is where this false
and
hence problematic distinction arises between repentance from 'sin' and
repentance from a failure to recognize who Christ is.
yD
From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:01 AM
To: Debbie Sawczak
Subject: Fw: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 14, 2006 09:38
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Re: repentance: basically, your admitting that Bill's understanding of the
Acts passage he posted is correct--i'd agree that's bible teaching
however, the point you are trying to make about it, represented below, is
a
scripture dog that don't hunt--as usual, it is your own private notion
universalized, shot through with geekness but rooted plainly (through
contrast) in personalized philosophy, over which you sprinkle some
home-brew
holy water labeled 'Heb 6:1'
the issue historically is that you don't study and think much about (e.g.)
Heb 6:1 while continually presupposing that it matches your philosophical
bias, bec to you it sounds always like it does
in the end, it simply ain't bible teaching, Bro
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:46:06 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
||
Surely you know better than to hang the entire gospel on one's
interpretation of one sermon.
||
Heb. 6:1 says that an elementary principle of the doctrine of Christ
is repentance from dead works. This clearly links repentance and sin.
||
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